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#10 - Good Vibrations Carry Information w/ Dr. Dave Cohodes

In this episode, I chat with Dave Cohodes. We talk about fear responses, finding your tribe, the role of physicality in cognition, and so much more.

Connect with Dave:

Dave (00:00):

We all have a potential in us. And that potential is, it's like our soul calling us forward to something that we can be. And if we follow that path, it grows our character and we get dragged through the mud, we get the weight room of life, proverbially. But ultimately, it's, it's us needing to live up to that potential that that really grows our character and I knew I wasn't living up to my potential, and I needed other guys around me to push me and to get me to that ultimate potential and kind of looking back, it's like, yeah.

Athan (00:42):

Welcome to Doing The Work. If you're okay with living a boring life with below average results, this is not your podcast, go ahead and tune out now. But if you want to live an amazing life full of purpose, love, joy, abundance, and elite health and fitness, you've come to the right place. This podcast is for people who are ready to stop making excuses and start doing the work that creates a life that they love. I'm your host, Athan Schindler, and Airborne Ranger turned social worker, turn strength coach turned entrepreneur. I've spent my entire life learning how to be uncommon among the uncommon, I found my purpose and empowering people to reach their full potential. And this podcast takes a deep dive in how to prioritize what matters. Do the work, own your life, maintain compassion and kindness, and risk failure while enjoying every moment along the way. I talk to people who inspire me and share their gifts with you. This is my way of helping you find what sets you on fire and keeps the fire burning. The Doing The Work podcast is brought to you by strive human optimization, training hard, recovering harder, check them out at

Athan (01:55):

Well, this is Dr. Dave, and I'm so excited to have you on my podcast. This is the doing the work podcast. And this has been a project of mine. And really this whole thing was started because I want to talk to people who have inspired me who've been a part of my growth. I've had many conversations with you in which I walked away, wishing that I had recorded that for posterity forward that I could share with other people just like things that changed me at a foundational level and that I knew if someone else could hear that, that someone else might get something out of it too. And so that's this project is just me trying to have some like conversations with people and just see where it goes. So here we are.

Dave (02:42):

Well, thank you for having me, my friend. Yeah, man, this is a long journey. You and I were literally thinking about this. This morning. We have another good friend of ours. Dave, and we'll call him the other day because

Athan (02:58):

I always refer to you guys as you know. Yeah. And

Dave (03:02):

I was actually kind of laughing because in thinking about where we are today, and doing the work, right. And where we were when we first started getting together when we knew we needed each other. I knew I needed you guys. And I knew I needed strong men in my life that would keep me accountable and help me through some processes that I was working through. And thinking about that guy was that like three years ago?

Athan (03:29):

I don't know, I was thinking about the same thing. I don't remember the timeline that well. I was also thinking about the miracle of how it all kind of came together. Yeah. You know, how I originally met you and how you somehow knew Dave, who I also knew, and like,

Dave (03:42):

I honestly was following Dave on Instagram. And I saw him. I was like this guy. I like his philosophy. I like what he's doing. I like, he's reading books that I would read, he's doing things that I would do. And I'm like, I want to reach out to this guy because I think he's got something of value that that I can lean into. And I knew I needed men in my life. Good quality, man. I mean, we could sit there and chat about that for a minute. Because I think men need other men today more than ever. And, I knew I needed you guys at the time. I was going through my dark night about two years before that, coming out of that I was kind of putting myself together. But I still needed that accountability group. And I knew I didn't have that yet. And so I reached out to you guys. And we started meeting for coffee. I remember that it was kind of funny because we were still very shy. We were pretending right?

Athan (04:41):

Well, that's the whole way groups come together. Yeah, the forming, storming norming. We went through all

Dave (04:49):

Yeah, and I do remember everything shifted for the positive when instead of us when instead of meeting for coffee, we actually met for whiskey. And that was the day where we're like All right, it's all coming out all of it.

Athan (05:02):

Yeah, I think we finally got through some of those inhibitions.

Dave (05:07):

Yeah, we finally were able to get vulnerable. And I think that was the key, both for me, but also, I think in our relationship was just to go through that vulnerability. And, the rest is history. And here we are. Yeah.

Athan (05:21):

I mean, that's kind of how I remember it, too. And I remember just being fascinated with like, like, one of my friends and members of my gym was a guy named Nick, who you knew. And then he said that you got to meet my doctor, you're gonna love him. You guys think about things similarly. And then. So we met one time and then, and then it kind of dropped off. And again, the miracle of what the universe provides. You know, you and Dave had LinkedIn. So this is the story how you and Dave linked up and hey, let's all get together and what did we call that group? The the warrior

Dave (05:58):

poet, the warrior poet, the warrior poets, yeah, worried part of society. And actually, when I looked it up online, I was like, Man, that's like a great name, I want to buy the domain name. And there was a guy that was already doing it. And I was like, there's like, a name for everything. But I actually like that guy's stuff. You know what, he's got good.

Athan (06:16):

So that led you to that. And yeah. So well, I am so grateful that we did meet because, like you said, since then, like in witnessing the journey, all three of our journeys, and the trajectory of how, I mean, we're all very different, dealing with different things than we were then and I'm just so grateful to have been been a part of that. And so, and I agree with you that not enough people have the courage to know that they need what one has the wisdom to know that they need a group A what would you call that? A pack? Yeah, tribe, a tribe? And then but also then to have the courage to, to go find it and create it if it doesn't already exist?

Dave (07:07):

So yeah, it was such an interesting thing, kind of looking back, I had this, I don't know, like, I just am a highly ambitious, I just really am and I always wanted to, to live my best life and to just live my potential, I really feel like, we all have a potential in us. And that potential is, it's like our soul calling us forward to something that we can be. And if we follow that path, it grows our character and we get drugged through the mud, we get the weight room of life, proverbially. But ultimately, it's us needing to, like live up to that potential that that really grows our character and I knew I wasn't living up to my potential, and I needed other guys around me to push me and to get me to that ultimate potential and kind of looking back it's like, I needed that.

Athan (08:07):

Yeah. And honestly, it was something that I didn't even know that I was one of the people who didn't even have the wisdom to know that I needed it. Yeah, you know, don't you guys come, can't you guys manifest it there for me and something that you guys knew that you needed? Yeah. And I was like, oh, yeah, this sounds great. But I didn't and then like now I'm like, wow, like, look at the gifts that that gave me and I didn't know I needed it. Yeah.

Dave (08:30):

I love that man. Yeah, I mean, looking back, man, it's been an incredible journey in the last three years. And to say that I like what I said, I mean, I've said this earlier, but to say that I've changed is like an understatement. I'm a completely different human. Yeah, today now than it was Yeah.

Athan (08:51):

And it's visible. Yeah. So I like to jump into that a little bit. Like, what are you working on? Like, what are you working on now? Like, what are some of the things that you're working on? Currently? Yeah, like, personally and professionally, whatever? Yeah. What I mean, what's top of mind? What do you focus on?

Dave (09:04):

Yeah, so I mean, it's personal and professional in a way for me, I feel that we all have a purpose in this life, I really feel like we were all put on this earth for a reason. And that's not necessarily to say that that is like work. Like, you don't have to go out and lay bricks or be a marketing manager or do something but that we all have an essence essentially, when that essence is I'm used to word vibration, and that vibration carries information. So each person has their own like, tone I and when I bring this up with other people, I always give the example of like, when you've ever been in a public place, like a bar, some like that, you just know that like someone's vibe is off you just like yes. Do you feel that you can feel that? And there is evidence and science coming out relative to these things now, like we know that people emit literally emit vibrations, and those vibrations are based on our cognition and our constant trains of thought, both conscious and subconscious, and how we emit ourselves in the world and your physical and your physical being, yeah, so it's mental, physical, emotional, and spiritual.

Dave (10:13):

And so I really feel that we all have a purpose and that purpose again, it comes down to an essence, which is a vibration. And if we can live up to that potential, then we become the vibration that we were meant to be, which ultimately requires that we go through the hero's journey, the dark knight, we battle the inner demons, we do the things that are necessary for us to live up to that fullest potential. And so both personally, that's what I've been going through, the inner work just constantly just like it's like a daily practice for me, I meditate, I do yoga practices, I've moved my body. I'm focused on my nutrition, except for on Fridays I have pizza night, which is important, pizza, the kids, you got to do that. And yeah, like I'm really focused on living up to my fullest potential. I've gone through many different types of ceremonies journeys, if you want to call them I've worked with different plant medicines, I saw the evidence come out for that, through Johns Hopkins, helping veterans and similar to you, I'm a veteran.

Dave (11:28):

And so I needed something to help me both through the wounds of war, but also just some financial trauma that I went through earlier in my career, after having signed a contract that fell through and that I was really banking on that contract, because it was a location contract. And, basically lost everything overnight. Everything kind of spiraled. And all of a sudden, I kind of was like, kind of standing there like, oh, this is like this. I knew it was like, This is my moment, like, this is my moment, to show myself what I'm capable of. And it wasn't easy. It wasn't Yeah, at all. But what I realized now is that it brought me to my fullest potential. When I say my power, it's like, I'm able to see things. And when I say see things, I mean, like, if something like if I have a negative thought, for instance, I can catch it right away, I can see that like, no, that's the wrong train of thought, like, I don't need to think negative, I just like I can just transmute that very quickly. I can remain positive, I can remain optimistic.

Dave (12:37):

And it's not like some panacea like la dee da, everything's gonna be okay. Like, this is true boots on ground, like, focused on where I'm going. And being able to, to actively, both know what I'm thinking, change what I like, if I think something is negative, I'm able to flip that into the positive, and then get better results in my life because of it. And so that's actually basically what I'm doing now professionally, as well as helping people through that process of the inner game, the inner work, and transmute both, what is in the conscious mind. So just like the daily mindset work, the meditation, the transmuting thoughts, focusing on where you want to go, but also the deep, if you want to call it spiritual work, using a process called somatic release breath work.

Athan (13:33):

Yeah, I want to hear about that. Because I know that's been a lot of the work that you've been doing. Yeah, hopefully, we'll get to that.

Dave (13:37):

Yeah we will. And, so that is like, the deep, like, let's get down into the roots. And so by going through all of these processes, I can help people truly through the hero's journey, in a way it's such a powerful process. And right now in the works of developing an actual like weekend experience and immersion. So that, the individual can come in, if they're feeling like, Man, I'm not getting the results I want. I'm just, like, you can just, like almost like you can, like, see it like you but you for whatever reason, you're just blocking yourself like self sabotage, procrastination, you're just, not as effective as you want to be. All of that is truly what's going on in the inside of your body, how your body and your mind are responding emotionally to the world around you.

Dave (14:31):

So, you might notice that, people might notice that though, they'll get a certain result and then they'll be winning in life, they'll be getting the results they want and all of a sudden, like something will happen and then they'll retreat back. Well, that's a trauma response essentially. And so my job is to help you break through that instead of running away. And it does require people, it requires a guide, it requires having a group of individuals around you to support you and hold you while you go through that, because that's just scary. That's the scary part. Yeah. Of Life. Yeah.

Athan (15:07):

Yeah, you mentioned earlier the weight room of life. I love that visual. I love that idea. And honestly, it's something that I have not done a great job of the reason why I own a gym and gyms and like, fitness facilities and stuff like that, is because I see and feel the direct relationship between, how you develop strength, physical strength, yes, in the weight room, the actual weight room is the exact same way that you develop strength emotionally, spiritually, and I want to do a better job of saying, like, look, when we're in the weight room, yes, we are trying to become physically stronger. But this is also a this is exactly how you figure out that relationship problem that you've been having, or that career issue or what whatnot. And so when you talked about earlier, this is the you said something along the lines of this is like a heavyweight, that I'm lifting, I'm going through this dark part of my life. And this is like the heavy way I loved hearing you say that, because I was like, Yeah, this is like your testing day, you've done all this training. And this is why my program worked for me. This is my one rep max. Yeah, essentially, or this is my one mile run or whatnot. Yeah. And, not enough people look at those tests in life with that kind of vision and that gratitude, like, thank you. Yeah, thank you for giving me all this shit that I'm having to deal with right now. Because let's see if I can lift it. And if I can't lift it, I'll drop it. And then I'll go back to the weight room. Yeah, and I'll start training and now I know what I'm capable of what not capable.

Dave (16:43):

Yeah, and the training, quote, unquote, training can always change to keep that in mind. You know, like, as we age, the emotional training, I think about the way I started, I just started with, with gratitude, and just affirmations and the things and they got into meditation. And then ultimately, it's now it's worked itself into full on somatic expression, somatic releasing for myself, if I'm going through some work, I have like, the day to day practices, and this is just the emotional stuff. But I'm able to, again, like really work through some deep stuff in a very quick period of time. And so as you grow, as you develop, through the weight room of life, you're able to process things, it's like you're physically like, you're emotionally stronger as you are physically stronger. And, it's such a powerful thing, it's, I really do like that analogy, too. Because if you're, looking to grow your muscles, right, physically, you don't like look at the the weights and be like, you son of a bitch, it's like, if you're looking at your husband, or your wife and you're like, god damn it, doing that thing again, like, that's just an example that's like a 45 pound weight. That's all that is, and how you perceive the way is really a lot of what's gonna the result you're gonna get, if you go into you know, let's say like Max deadlift, a like a one rep max deadlift day, you're like, Yeah, it's like, your mindsets tuned in and you align your mind and body and like, you are physically stronger because of your mind. And we know our mind and body are connected. And so our mind the way we show up in the weight room, but also just, it really shows up in so many different areas of life. And our finances and our relationships and our, you name it, it's everywhere.

Dave (18:45):

And so it's uh, if you're able to really show up. And, like, look at, let's say, your state of finances, because let's say finances is a thing that was, that was a thing for me. And if you're able to look at your bank account, or you're just like, your customer list, or whatever, and you're like, you're not happy with it, but you see it as an opportunity, then everything is going to change, and you see it with gratitude. Your whole life will change because then you're, it's as if the universe like has to, has to match you how you're showing up and you being a sovereign individual, you have freewill to choose. And that's really ultimately what if I'm going to sell it if I'm selling anything, I'm just selling for free? Well, I'm just giving you free will back. That's all it is.

Athan (19:36):

Yeah. Well, tell me more about that. What do you mean by that?

Dave (19:39):

Yeah. So when we're in a trauma response, I'll give an example. For so there's a difference between response and react. Right? So if you have a situation let's let's use a bank account, because that resonates with a lot of people is if you look at your bank account, and you're not happy with that, and you experience the feelings of Let's say poverty or, or lack of freedom, or you're just not, you're just not happy with what you're looking at as far as numbers are concerned, you feel fear, well, out of reaction out of fear, you're going to react, and then out of reaction, you're going to get a certain result. And that result typically is not going to be what you actually want, which is more money, more freedom, more joy, more ease, more pleasure, all these things. Now, that fear comes from a response that's essentially embedded in our subconscious mind, which is our body. So our mind and body are truly connected. They have to be right. Otherwise, like, we just started the baby. I don't know, I don't even know if we would be alive, like, it would be we would not have evolved, yeah, we would not have evolved, right.

Dave (20:48):

So our mind and body are truly connected. And it's in our body that lives the subconscious, the past experiences. And so as you mentioned, like, call me Doctor day, which is, I always forget that I go by that moniker sometimes, but I so my background is in chiropractic. So I'm a bodyworker. And I would see this, the people coming in with the same issues over and over and over again, I was like, there's gotta be something with my mind and body connected, because I'd be chatting with them. And, on the days that they'd have low back pain, they'd also feel a lack of support, or on the days that they'd have knee pain, they'd feel that they couldn't move forward in life, or, in like these like patterns when I started studying this stuff, and sure enough, like, there are patterns that show up in the body. And so what I needed to do was figure out well, how can I go into the body and use my the, what I know about mind, and connect to the body, and release that from through the the realm of emotion, because mind and body are connected through emotion, that's how we have an experience. So we don't, we don't experience anything without an emotion, an emotion is literally just a vibration.

Dave (22:06):

That's the information that we're giving off. And so if we can dive into that, and release that, now we can go from reaction, which is a trauma response in the subconscious mind, let's say you had an experience when you were a kid, you saw, something that was very traumatic, I know, you and I have chatted about that experience for you. And for me, one experience that I had that was traumatic was just seeing my dad, like, basically, he came home one day, and all of a sudden, everything was different. And I didn't know why I was very young. But I just knew everything was different. And then all of a sudden, my mom and dad were fighting more and came to find out he had gotten fired from his job. And then he had to start his own business and that was very stressful financially and, the things that I would ask for that would, come easy, no longer came easy, and it was so it was very traumatic for me. So I experienced financial stress and trauma even when I was a kid. And you don't think about that stuff, but then it's that life inside of you. So essentially, as an adult, I relived that because it was almost like my because of that vibration, right?

Dave (23:12):

We the universe gives us what we are, how we are thinking mentally, physically and emotionally how we are vibrating I literally had to relive that and then I went through all the reactions of that all the triggers all the stress all the the the explosions, put myself together, released all that and now I'm I have freewill, meaning, I no longer react to when I look at my bank account and say, Oh, it's at this dollar amount. I don't like that. Like, I'm not reacting anymore. I'm responding to myself like okay, like, I see this dollar amount. Okay, great. What can I do about it? Okay, this this and this. And the emotion and the expression of that is completely different. And so I don't have to come from fear anymore and come from gratitude from joy and come from a place of service and that's what my life has become and it's like the most incredible things have come to me because of that. And then the question is do I want more of course like it's like a healthy dissatisfaction.

Dave (24:22):

I had metal Ed Mallette said it the perfect way and I'm like blanking on it, how it but he was he basically referred to it as like he was dissatisfied but but content there I think was like content dissatisfied in a way like that was kind of the right the way he described it. And I was like, Man, that's like perfect because it's like you can be grateful and content and yet still, like want more and that's just the nature of being a human. Right, right. We have to eat food. Yeah, we have to live life.

Athan (24:52):

Well that’s how I equate it to it is kind of like nutrition like you know, if you want to have a healthy body weight and stuff like that. You have to be content with being a little hungry sometimes, yes, you have to accept that as like not being in a crisis. Yeah, it's just like, oh, this is part of the process to, to get to my end goal. Yeah, it's and so finances are similar, it's like, okay, if you want to get somewhere in life, you kind of have to learn to be content with, some setbacks or some, having without, yeah, but then knowing that, that's just part of what's going to get you to the end goal,

Dave (25:31):

And ultimately, like a perfect example, like, and I'm glad you touched on that. Because when you're going through the process, and you don't have the outcome, right, like the tangible physical outcome, let's just use money, because that's, that's easy for people to like, grasp onto, when you don't have it, you still have to remain focused on the emotion, of gratitude, on joy, on ease on pleasure, on freedom of whatever it is, and it's in that work, that you will naturally get triggered. And I know it sounds weird, but what's happening is that you're consciously choosing, I'm going to put a different vibration into my body. And when that light vibration, when that higher vibration goes in there, what happens is all the shadow and ego and all that stuff comes forward. And it says if you get triggered throughout the process, as a means to level up, because it's like, as soon as you turn a light on, the dark pneus of a room is going to go away. Well, when you do that in our body, because our body takes a little while to kind of catch up, we have to still process the emotions of that with.

Dave (26:45):

So that's where the work is, that's where you're going to do, like, let's say daily practices, that's where, a weekend immersion is going to really come into play, that's where coaching is going to come into play. That's where having a group of individuals that can support you along the path, that's, when we were working through our stuff, you, me and Dave, and it gave me the opportunity to express vulnerability. And in doing that, I realized, oh, that's strength I can look at this shadow part of me in this part that I'm really ashamed of. And there was a part of me that was really ashamed of which at the time was finances. I was like, very ashamed of this, I'm very ashamed that I'm not providing a life for my wife and my kids that I had the thought of, right. So, again, that was my potential calling me forward. And it was just a high ambition. And I am experiencing that shame, and announcing that shame, it no longer has power over me. So that power, that positive emotion of freedom of joy, was able to now take hold in my body.

Athan (27:53):

Yeah, I, it reminds me of a book I listened to recently by Anthony de Mello. And it was called, oh, shoot, I'm forgetting the name anyway, but he talked about the there's really It boils down to two things in life, it's and love and then everything, it's like you can choose love. Or, and he said that the opposite is not hate. We think that the opposite of love is hate. But the opposite of love is fear. Yes. And that's what it really boils down to is when we're acting in ways that we're not proud of, or we don't feel like it's like our true self, or our you talked about essence earlier, it's like, I'm not being who I really am. Yeah, it's really, we're acting out of fear, correct? You know, and if we can in that moment between, reaction and response, if we can take a pause there and just check in with ourselves and be like, am I going to do am I going to the next step, I'm going to take is that going to be because I'm afraid? I mean, I'm fearful or am I going to choose love? Am I gonna say I love this? I know this is born. This is like something that's good for me. And this is, I can turn this into something loving. He just said it in a really powerful way. And, that's resonated with me since then it sounds a lot like what you're saying.

Dave (29:09):

That's it. Yeah, I mean that you hit the nail on the head. So when you are in reaction, which is fear, and which is the opposite of love, which is the opposite of free love and freewill are essentially the same,

Athan (29:23):

right? It's kind of like the whole fight or flight thing. Correct? Yeah.

Dave (29:27):

So that flight, flee and font as the other one where it's like you kind of cower down and you're like people pleasing and these things. You know, the difference between that and freewill is really a dysregulated nervous system. Your mind and body are not aligned to a potential. And that potential is, maybe a dream that you have like a house and a career and these things, and that's why dreaming is so Powerful you we have to be able to set. So if anybody was, like, Okay, where do I start, with this work, it would be the literally that set, literally write a dream, like what dream do you have for your life, but do you have a certain career goal Do you have, like a physical goal, whatever that is, it's so powerful, because that is our potential calling us forward. And when we set that dream, now we have a pinpoint on the map, and we can go towards that. And when we are moving towards that, that's where we're going to experience the weights, the 45 pound weights, Kornel quote, where you're going to have a conversation with someone, and it's gonna be very triggering, maybe you start a business and one of your customers sues you, because you are negligent, or, and but you didn't mean to, but you still were some, whatever the the, the situation is, that can be extremely triggering.

Dave (31:00):

And that is the process for you to evolve. And, and that's why if you are going to live your greatest life, having a group of people around you that are also going towards their greatest life is so important. You have to have other people and, even the wisdom of coaches, and you mentioned that you hired a coach. I've hired coaches, whether it's, coaches for business, or coaches for relationships, or coaches for whatever, having wise individuals who have done the work. Yeah, to help you through that process. And that's ultimately what, professionally, what we're providing, though.

Athan (31:42):

Yeah, I love that you brought up the coaching thing, because obviously, I consider myself a coach for people and I coach coaches to coach other people at the gym in the physical realms, coaching, I love that you bring that up, because I think, as a coach, like you've coached other people to things, we've all done that. And I think we're the key there is, as a coach, you don't necessarily have to have had the experience, or the wisdom, or anything like that. I think about this for myself, but it's just someone who walks the path with someone and draws out from them, their inner wisdom, it's like, I don't need to know exactly what you're going through or have gone through what you're going through or Yeah, to have some I already know the solution.

Athan (32:26):

I just like it, just someone that's like, well, let me pull that out, if you like what you know, and ask me probably more questions than you're giving information. Yeah, and I think that's what I prefer. And that's why I'm part of that tribe. Yeah. And that group of people who are, maybe we all have different dreams, we all have, you have a different dream than I do. And then you know, the other day he had a different dream than either one of us. Yeah, but because we are walking the path of pursuing our dream pursuing our optimal self. We understand what that process is like, and we can draw the best out of each other. During Yeah, and I'll learn some things chasing my dream. That'll help you. Yeah. And you'll learn some things chasing you're in together. We all get there.

Dave (33:10):

Yeah. I mean, we don't get there until we all get there. Yeah, that was

Athan (33:15):

Yeah, my fate. One of my favorite things is like none of us make until all of us media. I love that. I love that vision of that. When I say it here, and when I say it in my head, it might only make sense to me. But I envision this world in which we all collectively come together, we stop trying to make ourselves right and others wrong, or me good and you bad. And we come together in a way that says like, Okay, I want to help you make it. Yeah. Because when you make it, Yes. And I just love thinking about being in a world that's like that.

Dave (33:48):

I completely agree. I really imagine a world where we are all living to that fullest potential, and we are supporting each other. And it's a social norm to honor and hold space. For someone who's going through a struggle, whatever that struggle is, if they're wrestling with their business, or their finances, or their relationship or whatever, that we as individuals don't judge another but that we are, we simply hold space. And that's, again, that can only come when you've done the work, internally. And that's why I do what I do. Because it's as if I'm helping individuals live to their fullest potential not just for themselves, but for the entirety of the world. Because as soon as they are in a space where they can hold space, they can live in their power, they don't have to worry anymore. They can help others go to that same level. I think that's how we all rise. And that's, and kind of ask the question, it's kind of funny, I always forget what I'm doing professionally even though I'm doing it. Yeah, it's funny like I'm Like, yeah, that's what I'm doing.

Athan (35:01):

Right? Well, it's like you're out here doing what calls you, you're out here basically finding ways to make a living doing the things that you would do for free anyway, correct? Yep. Just because that's what calls you. Yes. And that actually is one of the things that I love about you. It's interesting that the last podcast I did was with a guy named Dr. Zain Hakeem who's also a practitioner, like a medical doctor, right? Who has like a practice of, I guess, family care practice or whatever, but he has similar philosophies as us. And what I love about you is the the way that you've come to all of this in the way that you've learned all of this is, as a chiropractor, you kind of like, that's where it all started, you kind of are like, well, I'm going to follow a career that like, I can make a decent living doing and it comes with some status and stuff like that, but then you reverse engineered the whole thing. And you now do this much more broadly, expansive, holistic work that you found by practicing chiropractic. Yeah.

Dave (36:07):

Absolutely. I came to the realization that if you want to, I'm in the health industry, I'm going to use that in quotations, because it's kind of important. And I asked the question, well, what is health? And, in the beginning, I was like, Okay, it's like physical, you got to do like, I came down to like, okay, like doing things, right. But I'm like, That's not healthy, like nutrition and working out. That's not like that's just like what you do to achieve health. But what is health? And what I came to realize is that you can't separate any aspect of an individual's life, if you want to, if you want to talk about health, because we know that the mind and body are connected. And we know that if we are going to live the healthiest life, we know that our hormones have to be balanced, we know that our nutrients, not just our nutrition, but just like that our entire state of being our well being has to be balanced. And we know we need to remain adaptable and essentially in charge free. And the only way we can get there is if we take the entire individual, if you have a thought about poverty, when you look at your finances, and that thought sends a signal down into your body that that starts to express bio and neurochemical which creates, which creates this pressure which creates this tension, this stress, cortisol is released, we have epinephrine, norepinephrine being released into our body, we know that creates inflammation that creates breakdown in the system that then creates dis-ease.

Dave (37:47):

And I use the word dis-ease that kind of breaks that up. Because it's a lack of ease, that's why we don't feel at ease. And, then I realized, Wait, you can't separate any one aspect of an individual, even their spiritual well being, if they don't feel connected to a higher form, a higher source of purpose in this life. If they feel like they don't have an impact, they don't feel connected in their relationships. Now all of a sudden, okay, if I'm going to be a healthcare provider, I gotta be a relationship coach, a financial coach and a business coach, and I was like, this is powerful. This is interesting. And so really, what as a health care provider now, what I provide is the structured work, essentially, the techniques, the exercises, the opportunities, the experiences for people to process, their external world, and the internal, and then show up to those things. So I'm not necessarily like teaching them how to look at their books and or how to relate in their relationships, even though they're all throwing things in there every once in a while for those things.

Dave (39:00):

But really, how are you showing up in those experiences? And as you change your mindset, your mind and body to those experiences? How is that now? How is your experience now changing to you? And that really is true health, because you just completely transmuted something that was maybe deep inside a trauma that you experienced as a child, and you no longer express that out of reaction of fear, you now are able to respond to when your wife, asks you a certain question that used to trigger you like, my wife would, would trigger me in a certain way when, of course, because I was not providing and that was to a level that I've deemed fit. And so, when she would ask certain questions like, Hey, why aren't we doing this? Or why aren't we going on more vacations? I would get so triggered because I wasn't living up to that potential.

Athan (40:00):

Writing well boils down to that fear response. Exactly. I'm afraid. Yeah, I'm not worthy, or yeah, that I'm not providing, yeah, so I get it.

Dave (40:09):

Yeah. And that was exactly it. And so my reaction then would be out of fear out of, but fear of like, I'm not worthy, I'm not lovable, you're gonna throw me away? Yeah, like, you're gonna get rid of me or no, like, how, without sometimes I would think I'm like, Why is she still with me? You know, I knew I was a really good man. But I just wasn't living up to a potential that I set for myself, even though she might have had, like, she wanted nicer things, of course, go on vacations, and these things, but I wasn't living to that potential. But what I really recognized now, and kind of coming full circle in this conversation is that I had to reconcile, and transmute and process all of that information, essentially, that trauma that I had as a child, just everything as, as I was in the moment, so that I could release that then ultimately show up to those conversations. And, but okay, yeah, like, well, how are we going to do that? Now? You know, like, which is a completely different vibration.

Athan (41:19):

Yes, well, and another part, you mentioned vulnerability, which is something I've thought a lot about recently, and it's actually been coming up through a lot of my recent conversations. And part of that, too, is also just owning the piece of that, that is, when you say this, to me, I have this fear response, I have this, again, like, I have this feeling like you're because I'm not, I have set an expectation for myself. And then when I'm not meeting that expectation, I'm afraid that you are going to get this is actually me talking about me, you're gonna get rid of me. Yeah. Right. And, but then having the wisdom and the vulnerability to say that. And in those conversations, that brings, like, an awareness to the other. Yes. And then And then also, it puts it out into the world, and then people can kind of start understanding, you know, how to approach you differently, you start creating different kinds of conversation. Yeah, through that process.

Dave (42:18):

Yeah, because you're a completely different human, right. And I've gotten a lot of compliments in relation to just like, we'll call it my vibration, just like my state. And I was at a retreat. This is after a big transformation, I'd done some work with plant medicines, and specifically iwoca was a plant medicine that I've worked with. And it was such an incredible experience that this would be a whole nother podcast, like completely.

Athan (42:48):

Yeah, I mean, yes. There's just so many things, we could talk about things we have talked about as much as why I had you on the show, because I knew that it would go somewhere.

Dave (42:56):

And so after that, though, I just came back from that experience completely transformed in a very positive way. And I had done a lot of work up to that point. And the work I did I recognized because of that plant medicine, it shows you very clearly your life and whatever you go in with, you know, it'll show you what you need. And I came out of that. Just like, like hole, the best way to ascribe it, I came out just easy, just free. And I was at a retreat about four or five, we actually I think it was like six weeks later. And we're like, people would come up to me and be like, they because it was a is it wasn't a plant medicine retreat, it was called conference on retreat. So it was a lot of fun. And, and we had a big, big circle, and there were about 40 people there. And then people would notice, like, they're like, I could just tell that this guy's vibe is like tuned in. And people made comments of that, over the course of the week, or weekend. And, and it's true, it's like as soon as you do the work, as soon as you go you really like to wrestle your inner demons. Yeah, you come out the other side, and things come to you.

Athan (44:13):

And yeah, that's the part that I really love. So Paul, Chet calls it working. Sometimes we work out. I work out now but he calls it like work in and it's like when you do that work, and when you when you were talking about like a somatic response to things. I've been hearing that term from like, I remember from like years ago, I mean, like probably even in my childhood, you know, and usually was talked about in terms of like, oh, this person has migraines, or this person has stomach problems or whatever. And it's a somatic re yeah, I would I didn't I mean, I got the fact that it was like okay, they have some emotional issues or they're having some things going on in their life that are manifesting in a physical way. Yes, but now I understand that in a much different like what you're talking about your frequency, your vibration, that and what it takes to heal those parts of your yourself and a lot of it's like so the habits and the practices that so that it's actually might be a great segue into this somatic breathwork Yeah, that you taught, So I get the somatic part. Yeah. How does the breath work play into that?

Dave (45:25):

So well, let's kind of talk about what a somatic is somatic is the Latin root for body. So anytime we know, you've heard the term psychosomatic, which a lot of like, for whatever it was the term. Yeah. Psychosomatics were people. We were sort of like, almost like a placebo effect. We sort of take that like evidence and just sort of throw it away be like, Oh, it's just psychosomatic. But now we realize, oh, well, that's like the stuff we need to look at. Like, it's actually the real that's like the real thing. Because how we are experiencing the world is how we are reacting to the world. So we have to take that evidence. And and really the the entirety of our entire experience is psychosomatic if you think about it, we the way we were acting, we mentioned this earlier, the way we react to our finances or relationships is going to affect our biochemical and neurochemical expression in our body, which is going to give us an emotion which has to do like you kind of follow the path. And then all of a sudden, we get a certain result, like let's say, We're afraid, well, we're gonna react out of fear differently than if we were in joy. And we would respond. We always like, we know that this is true, but it's just like, for whatever reason, it's in the moment a little bit hard for us to kind of grasp that

Athan (46:42):

Yet, would you go as far as to say that the majority of the physical ailments that we deal with, are sourced in the psycho part of that, either the psychological or emotional side of things. Yeah. So like, if I'm having knee pain, for example, if I'm having knee pain right now, yeah, would you go as far to say that there's a large part of that is, it can be not only sourced and but also healed through inner work?

Dave (47:15):

So anytime. Alright, so the best way to describe it in the dimension, an acute injury and a chronic injury, that right about the three week mark, right, so tissues, proteins are going to be healed relatively, at about the three week mark, and then we go through what's called the remodeling phase. And it's in that initial phase that, okay, if tissues are, of course, inflamed and torn and ripped apart, that's going to be a very physical experience, right? So if you like, have a just like, let's say, you just sprained knee, right, or, or an ankle or whatever. But then after that, if you still experience pain, and it's almost like, three years later, you're like, Yeah, I got this old knee injury, let's just keep popping up. Well, now we got to start experience, like going back into the emotional experience of that was that a traumatic experience, were you pissed off at your, a significant other, and you were leaving, and you twisted your knee, or even just playing sports, and even in that moment, it can be traumatic, because there's a lot of pain, and that pain can can send a signal to our brain. And if we don't feel safe in the moment, then, we can have a very subconscious reaction, which is, that's where the Cymatics comes in. And so, we have three levels of our brain we have the neocortex, we have the limbic system, or the neocortex is like the high level, new part of our brain, it's the part of our brain that were able to understand and have cognition and think and, we're able to talk and people are able to watch and listen because of their neocortex.

Dave (48:57):

We have the limbic system, which is just below that. So if you know, if I kind of look at the camera, and it kind of like, takes my thumb and goes on the inside, and then kind of wraps it around, the outer part is the neocortex. The inner part is the limbic system, which is the emotional brain, which is, the part of our brain where we do experience things like fear, but also pleasure and joy and these things, so both high level and low level vibrations. And then underneath that is the reptilian brain and the reptilian brain is really just, it's the brainstem. And it's all the parts of our body that are just pretty automatic. Now, our brainstem and our reptilian brain is really where a lot of the work gets done. We don't think about our heart beating, we don't think we don't really even think about breathing. You know, like, then we'll talk about breath because it's a powerful system. We don't think about our blood pressure, we don't think about our heart rate, it just does.

Dave (49:57):

You know, it just does it for us if we eat Food are just digests for us. That's all conscious. That's all subconscious. Now, why this is important is that the subconscious really runs the show. And if we have, we've experienced a trauma from the past, our body links up, sends a signal back to our brain saying, Nope, don't feel safe. And our brain will be like, correct, don't feel safe, I'm going to retreat, I'm going to fight, I'm going to flight, I'm going to freeze I'm going to find and whatever the situation might be, again, could be finances could be relationships could be, you name it. So we consciously can observe that and we'd be like, oh, man, I'm super annoyed by this. I'm, like, really frustrated. And we kind of get pissed off about our own actions. And that's oftentimes when people get disgusted enough with the lack of results that they're getting in their life that they take action to get, to reach out to a coach or a collective or whatever, they come at it. So that's when they come to see me. And when we are not getting the result, what is happening is that we are not honoring the experience we had, as a child as an individual, we're not experiencing the body's response. And so the intelligence of the body will say, Yeah, well, we need to fight, we need to flee from me to run. So what somatic release breathwork does, is it literally turns off the overthinking mind, it gets you out of your own way, in a moment. Right. And when I say in a moment, I mean, like over the course of about an hour, it gets you out of your own way. Because oftentimes we overthink things a lot of people do. In fact, everybody does everybody. Yeah, everybody. Yeah, I'd say all people, all humans.

Dave (51:52):

Unless you're like a robot or an Android or something like that. We over guru Yeah, something something like that. Yeah, we overthink things. And so what happens is, we aren't honoring the emotion of it. And so what's going to happen is we're just going to keep getting the same result over and over again. So by going into this, essentially a trance through breath, I can, as a facilitator, I can get you out of your own way. And I can call forward, the exact thing that you need to work on Now what's cool about it, is, I don't even need to know your trauma. And you don't even need to know your trauma, you might. But what you'll notice is that, whatever intention you go in with, is simply going to come forward. And it's going to bring forward everything you need in order to, to work through to process, to release the emotion of an experience so that you can now have instead of a reaction, you can have a response. So it's taking people from fear and moving them into love. It's taking them from reaction to response to freewill. So you no longer react, you have freewill for a moment now, with an A Conversation with your wife, when you look at your business, when you look at whatever area of life that is important to you. And, so by going through and honoring and releasing the emotion of it, we can now again, go into a new state, a new beat.

Athan (53:23):

Well, I'm super pumped to hear about this and I'm grateful that you keep inviting me to them because I haven't made one yet. But I need to get to one of these. For lotteries and one I just in general, as a human being I want to continue to grow, I want to continue to explore the inner workings of myself, to learn how to master myself. Yes. And just to be more in love, and get away from the fear which I a lot of people probably look at guys like you and me and guys we pile around with and think like, oh, they're not afraid of shit. They're strong men. But in actuality, I'm constantly afraid when I really sit and think about it. Yeah. I'm constantly full of fear. And part of the reason why I've made myself to appear strong, or actually be physically strong or whatever, is sourced in fear. I'm afraid, and of course, it's a lot of experience, right? You've been in multiple combat scenarios, you are clearly going to be afraid. You've seen what can happen to you and you're going to be afraid of that. So you build yourself up to it, or through traumatic experiences. Like, you mentioned earlier for me, the moment of watching my mom hand my little sister to a nurse who wouldn't giving her up for adoption, that moment of witnessing that produced a life and to this day, a lifelong fear of me, the possibility of me being able to be given away or given up on it. And not that that was how my eight year old mind was processed. You know that When my mom was doing she wasn't reading up on my sister, but that's how I perceived it.

Dave (55:07):

And we need to honor that really quick, there's two things you mentioned there that I want to honor. One is that trauma is not what happens to you. It's what happens inside of you at the moment. And so as an eight year old, when you don't have a rational cortex developed at that point, your mind and body says, I'm not safe. I could be given away at any second right now. And the one that I'm linked to my mom, the one that I know, like, if I don't have my mom, I'm fucked, right? Like, that's basically like, what your mind and body are saying, you're like, I'm dead if I could give it away. And so now inside of your body, you're mentioning how you experience fear, right? Well, that is that's happening for all of us. We're all experiencing, unless, again, you're a guru and in an ashram, and you're just like, totally fearless. We are all experiencing this constant tension. And if you if you almost like, take a second, like, if you're listening to this, really just like, take a second and just tune in to the tension you feel in your body. And if you just notice that, shit, there is like, I'll be watching TV sometimes. And, or like football. I, for whatever reason, I would like to get tense when I would watch a Sunday night football game, and it'd be Sunday night, and I'm like, Why am I feeling tense right now?

Dave (56:47):

It's like, well, yeah, because like, when I was a kid, I would remember watching Sunday night football and being like, I don't want to go to school. I would like to create this story. And like, I go back to like, work or school or whatever. And I would create this tension, like from that experience. And so when we are living with tension, always, that is our body, just emitting cortisol, that is our body, meaning these chemicals, these neuro and bio chemicals that are breaking us down. And so instead of our body, being in a state of ease, and rejuvenation, and replenishment, and recovery, we're kind of constantly under stress, we're kind of constantly breaking ourselves down. And so even all the workouts and all the, all the organic food isn't going to help. And of course, it can, but you're going to const doesn't hurt, you're gonna Yeah, it's not gonna hurt, but you're gonna be kind of chasing your own tail. So as soon as you get rid of what is causing the tension, and it's really a perspective shift, it's seeing a full 360 degree understanding of, let's say, when you were a child, and you see your mom, give your sister away, but I was even used those terms, just, giving them up for adoption.

Dave (57:56):

And you experienced that from a completely different perspective now as an adult, but not even as, in a rational way. You go through the limbic system and, and deep into the visceral experience of that, not any release, whatever you didn't, you weren't able to release at the at the time, maybe it's fear, maybe it's, you needed to, like physically shake, or you need to scream or you need to cry. Now your body can say, Oh, finally, like I let go of that, that stress. Yeah. And your body, and mind can now come full circle. And it's like, you no longer have the reaction, you now have the wisdom of that.

Athan (58:39):

Right? Yes, I'm so glad that you mentioned you said it that way. Because it now reminded me of the book I mentioned earlier, Anthony de Mello is called awareness, and the whole thing is about what's key to what you're saying is to take the time to process whatever you're feeling, and to be aware of it. And once you are aware of it, and you're not just in reaction to it, then you can own it. Yeah, but you cannot own it. And you can't be in response to it. Really until you are cognizant of it you're aware of. Yeah, and I think that's a big part. So doing the breath work, doing your meditation, going through the process of reading, learning, growing, having conversations like these absolutely brings awareness, absolutely. which then gives you ownership and then eventually you can get to mastery of it. Correct?

Dave (59:32):

Yeah. So you are absolutely correct. The first step is awareness. You have to have awareness around the pain, no matter what. And when I say the pain, I mean, the emotional pain, the physical pain, even the spiritual pain. And if you don't, you can't, take the next step, which is what do I need to do? In most cases, by the way, the next step is to just give the one It's space. You clean it, you get out of your own way and let nature take its course.

Athan (1:00:06):

Right when you have a wound, yeah, you can know the exact you can put, you can put a little covering over it, you can make sure there's no dirt getting into it. Yeah, I don't know, they're not banging it up against things Correct? Correct, then you guys, then you can just get out of the way of it and let it let the body do its thing. Correct?

Dave (1:00:23):

Yes, yeah. So when it comes to emotional wounds, and really comes down to, again, that psycho somatic experience, that's where, going down into the Enter, like, like going down and through. That's why in stories we see the hero going through the cave and then they find the dragon or they find the mirror. I always love that the reflection pond is such a classic archetype. And in the hero's journey, they find a body of water, where they see themselves and they realize oh, shit like this. It's me. I'm the issue here. It's not my wife. It's not my kids. It's not my business. I'm the one. And when you see that's when you're like, almost disgusted by yourself. Yeah, that's using your shadow and so, to but

Athan (1:01:19):

also empowering, it's very well realized when you realize I am the issue. Yeah. And when I take care of my shit, yes, I can then change this whole thing. Yeah, you don't become a victim anymore. Yes. You know, you're now like, oh, yes, I can do something about this. Because it's me correct.

Dave (1:01:38):

I'm the problem. And that is what response ability is its ability to respond, you're going from reaction to response. And you're able to see that and take ownership of that. And as soon as you do that, and you reconcile, and you transmute, and you do the work, right, and the work can show up in different ways. And just different moments. Again, it could be through meditation, it could be through, I'll do what I call somatic experiencing, which is actually not even through the breath work, which is just through, I had a young man, in here, he was a father and he had trouble with his own inner warrior, his own inner masculine. And he just thought, if I express this, this dark side of me, this part that is like, almost like the killer, that I could harm somebody. And he was very afraid of that. And so we got him to work through that. And, using different processes, like, just go into just punching pillows or whatever. It was like a scene from Fight Club. It was beautiful, incredible to watch. And he sent me a text later, after having gone through that I also worked him through some somatic release breathwork. But he texted me that he had wrestled with his son for the first time, and they had the most incredible time. There were moments like that. That's healthy. Right? Yeah. Like, I didn't work on his knee pain. I didn't work on his back pain, like we helped him really go down into his, in his psyche, and express himself in his in the most authentic way. Yeah. And that, for me, is what true health is.

Athan (1:03:23):

Yeah, I love that I often try to think about, because part of what I want to help other people with is helping them find optimal health and what optimal health means for them, it might look different than what it means for me, but I'm all then then I'm always forced to look and ask like, well, what is optimal? It's taking those two words apart from each other. Yeah, what is optimal? Yeah. And what is health? And? Yeah, and I could I would I tried to think about it, it's like, well, it's the ability to, to do anything when you want to do the thing. Correct. And it's making decisions that give you more options than then take options off the table. Absolutely. So that might be with your body. Yeah, that might also be with your mind, your spirit, and, so it's, I just, love wanting to be a part like you, you're drawn to being a part of what helps other people find that. Yes, and I'm so grateful that there's people like you out there who like the gentleman you just mentioned, thank goodness, he found you. And I mean, the joy of wrestling with your child. Yeah. Was something that he was holding himself back from, like it makes me on the inside feel like a little tearful about that because he had been not able to do their act and then and then you help you help them to do that.

Dave (1:04:51):

Yeah. For them. He wasn't able to express himself authentically, and because of fear. And it's not that he was a bad father, he was a great father. But he even knew and this is where, I hope those who are watching listen, really take a second and just consider like, where are you? Were you not showing up in your world? You know, like, it's almost like you gotta, like, you kind of know, where are you not playing out 100%? It could be in your relationship with a parent with oftentimes I find that people it's in their relationships, yeah, that they're not playing full out. You know, for some men they do look at their business or finances, but, but a lot of times, it's in our relationships because there's, there's such a, like, so much there. And it's interesting because as a provider, of helping people live their fullest potential and live their, live health it as a verb, not just as a noun, right? Because it's constant work. You know, seeing the ability for people to go from this reaction, this fear state, and bring them through, it's so powerful. It's just so powerful, man. So, I love man, I love this work. Oh, I love this work.

Athan (1:06:19):

And that's, and me too, and that's why I love being around. People like you who again, it's like, you're not the reasons that you engage in this are our pure, it's out of, like, out of literally out of love. And, it's so cool for me to see people. And this is what I really hope for all people in my life, that they find ways to provide for themselves and their family. Yeah, that also makes them feel like a whole person that fulfilled them, that brings them joy in the process. And I really think that's the sweet sauce. You know, that's the magic if you can find ways to do that for yourself. And sometimes it's not through work, like through career. Yeah, you might, I actually am jealous of people who have a job, where they can kind of just go there, do their thing, and then leave it there and then go enjoy their lives doing other things like hunting, fitness or Yeah. Family, I'm not one of those people. And sometimes that frustrates me about me. Yeah, did I can't just go anywhere, somewhere and just put in an eight hour day and not feel emotionally connected to it. Correct.

Dave (1:07:36):

Yeah. You know, what's funny about that, I think about that sometimes, too. Because ultimately, what you and I are doing, right? Even in this conversation, this is happening on a Sunday, for people who are interested 8:30am On a Sunday, and we did get tacos and coffee, which is perfect. But that's the lifestyle that we chose. And, I would rather go into a weight room with heavy weights, rather than go into one of those weight rooms with a bunch of Nautilus machines and pretend like I'm getting fit. Similar to you, I have a high ambition for myself, a high standard for myself, that I want to live my greatest life, not just like a really, really good life where I'm like, like, la dee da, but like, I want to live like a motherfucking badass life. And I'm living that right now. And it's getting better and better and better and better. And, and I'm seeing the fruits of my labor coming through now. And like, do I have a standard for more money? Yeah, of course, do I have a standard for? You know, more, like, better work out in the world? Yeah, of course, but that I know, that's coming. Like, I just know it because I'm in alignment with with truth for myself, I'm expressing myself,

Athan (1:08:51):

You're doing the inner work doing it, it's gonna produce those kinds of things. You know, in Yeah, I think that's the key. Yeah, what you're saying right now is like, I'm going to engage in this day in a way that I know can produce some sort of product, some sort of outcome that I desire. But I'm also going to let go of it. I'm not going to get so locked into the outcome that I forget that right now, this moment, what we're sharing, or when you're doing your work with the people you serve. That's how it all happens. You know, and so many people abandon today for some sort of being, locked in and focused on a future Yes. That they just miss it.

Dave (1:09:36):

Yeah. They, you miss the opportunity because you're focused on the outcome. And even if you're focused on the outcome of the here and now of looking at let's like, let's take people's cars, right, like, sometimes like we look inside of our car and be like, gosh, this thing is a mess. You know, like you see my car? Like I just was thinking about what I was like, I need a carwash. Pilot stuff. Yeah. I have a bump on the back of my truck because I backed into a tree and like, all of a sudden I'm like, and you can look at these things and really kind of beat yourself up about it. And really kind of get irritated with the outcome. But again, it's like, if the weights are rusted, they're still going to work. You know, be grateful for what you have right now, you can not possibly move forward in life, until you have gratitude for what you have right? This very second, even if it's causing you all the pain in the world, it's that thing that you needed to grow yourself to grow your character.

Athan (1:10:41):

Yeah, your soul. Well, I'm so glad you brought up that visual because as you were saying it, I had the visual of like my car, and it is messy, but it goes back to everything we just talked about. It's like, well, one, it's a task of awareness. Yes. I am aware. That it is messy. Yeah, that's important. Number two, I'm also aware of how it got messy. You know, and and I think about it like, Well, yeah, I live here. This is how I get around. And then it's a task of acceptance. Yeah. Right. It's like, I know how this I'm aware of how this all happened. I'm aware that it is the way it is. And I can accept it the way it is, or I can accept my power to change. Yes, like if my car is messy. And I'm bringing this up as an analogy. But that means if my mind is messy, if my body is messy, if my life around me is messy, yes, this is exactly how I need to be aware of it. Yes, I need to accept how it got how I got here. And then I need to either empower myself to change it or accept it as it is and move on and drop it.

Dave (1:11:43):

Yeah. And that's why a lot of, you know, personal development gurus always talk about just making your own bed. Right. Like, when you wake up in the morning, like, the first thing to do is make your bed. And why that's important is because it sets the tone for the day. And even if we're talking about cars, just one of you just every day, just like, took a quick inventory before you got out and be like, Oh, grab these receipts. And this takes 30 seconds. Yeah, that's like, the coffee, from the back or papers or mail or all your bags, or whatever is sort of like living in there. And you just take the stuff out. And you like, great, that's such an easy thing. I literally lived with checklists for a while, and I got away from it for a minute, but I didn't want to go back to it because it was really powerful. Because, let's say for instance, like the car thing, you're just you're gonna forget, and that's okay. And, like, we're not designed to remember everything as humans, but we're kind of going through our life subconsciously. So I would literally have checklists for things like a kitchen, right? As an example, it's like horizontal surfaces are clean and tidy. Dishes are in the dishwasher check. You know, the sink is clear. You know, like, I can, like literally read these things. And and speaking them in yes or no sentences. I can say, Yes, this is true, or no, this is not true. And that is such a powerful practice that was something that I was living by for a while, and my life was actually running really efficiently.

Athan (1:13:24):

Well, and it's like a really good practical example of like, your space, your physical space and stuff, but I actually have a thing that I either read or listen to every day, and I call it my purpose dashboard. Yeah. And it's things that I talked about, like, what do I consider my purpose in this world to be and what my vision for my life is. And I wrote myself like a little manifesto. And then at the end, it has things that inspire you, things that I aspire to be like, there might be quotes or whatnot. But I either read it or listen to it every day. And that's my daily kind of check. Just so I can go down and like, am I doing this? Yes or no? Am I facilitating that vision that I've set out for myself? Yes or no? Right? With the way that I've described my way of being to be through this manifesto that I read, like each little sentence in there, I can kind of be like, it reminds me each day, like, dang, I haven't been that way. And it helps me to recollect and get back on course.

Dave (1:14:23):

if you do one thing, let's just say like, go back to the car thing, because that's the perfect example. If you start doing that, over the course of a few weeks, you're going to hit resistance. Even if you have a checklist and you're reading it, you're gonna hit this resistance and that is the work right? So like, there's something that I provide, right, like it's both the practical steps of getting a result, but then also what's happening on the inside. Why are you getting super triggered in week two or three relative to cleaning out your car? Well, maybe it has something to do with you starting to almost like you're now aware of something deeper that you were hiding from. And that's why your car was super messy. And maybe that is you are unfulfilled with your daily work, you're unfulfilled with your career, let's just say that as an example. So you it would be so easy just to like after work, throw your stuff in your car and kind of use your car to offload this emotion of unfulfillment that you're not, because you're not living up to something that you can be, maybe you want to be a baker, and make, make rice crispy cookies for you know, the world and you're a lawyer.

Dave (01:15:37):

And I know it sounds weird, but that should happen. Like that's real. And so you would use your car and you throw your stuff in there. And there'll be papers and other things. So that's just a physical representation of what's going on inside. And so as you start to change yourself, and put your world in order with your physical world, let's say your car, your house, or whatever, you're going to hit resistance. And that's where you have to have a tribe around you to help you through that process. You have to have a coach to help you through that process. You have to have the actual processes, right? You got to have like the work what do you want me to do here like, I've been putting my car together. And I just realized, I fucking hate my life, right? It's like, Oh, that's interesting. Like, let's have a conversation about that. Let's dive into that. And, and why I bring this up is we oftentimes do things in our world, we don't even realize it. We're doing it out of fear. we're unwilling to look at, well, I'm so unfulfilled in my career, and I'm afraid of, I'm afraid of changing because what if I don't? What if I don't have enough money to pay for the things that I want?

Athan (1:16:56):

Or I'm afraid of how other people are going to perceive me? Right? If I just do a 180? Here? Yes. In my career, or in my relationship? Whatever. Yeah, I'm afraid. Will anyone still love me? Yeah. Well, has anyone except me made that decision to completely change direction? Absolutely. I think I heard I talked to a lot of people that that's really what it's about, like, if I change the way I'm doing things, yeah. Will other people be accepting of

Dave (1:17:24):

that, right? And what you'll find is that, it doesn't fucking matter.

Athan (1:17:27):

It doesn't matter that you'll find new people. Exactly. Yeah. Not that people are a throwaway or anything, but you'll find your new tribe, if your tribe got you to where you are now. Yeah, and you have to somehow go on your own for a little while until you draw in a new tribe. Yeah, then that's what's important. It's why, if that tribe is going this direction, you don't want to go that direction. Why go with the momentum of that, right? Rather than kind of, like,

Dave (1:17:51):

I promise you if we're gonna say nothing else, right? Like, this is like the one if you start to express yourself authentically, you will get resistance from the external world, zero doubt about it from your friends from high school, friends from college friends, from parents, from your significant other, you will resist yourself. And if you do nothing else, do just go through, like, push through that as much as you possibly can. There was a moment in my life where I decided, I am no longer living anything but authentic expression, like Period, end of story, I am now authentically expressing every single moment of the day. And I started showing up. And I remember when I was actually after that plant medicine experience with Ayahuasca, that was a very clear lesson that I needed in my life, which was authentic expression. And then it was so powerful and I remember coming back and being like, Yes, I'm going to be this thing. And I was just so enthused by movement, and then just like, flowing and so I started taking videos of myself in my front yard with my shirt off. Yeah. And, moving and almost kind of like a Tai Chi like kind of movement. And I remember thinking like, this is the moment that I need to post this. Yes.

Dave (01:19:24):

And, I did and so like, there were definitely people that were like, yes. I remember I think my mom even sent me a text like, are you okay? You know, yeah, like, and my wife even at one point was like, I don't even know who you are like. This is totally different. And I remember thinking, I don't give a fuck, I am authentically expressing I am moving my body. I am a representation of authentic, authentic expression. And I moved through that and those people either left my life or they just became okay with who I was because I started seeing, Oh, he's he's tuned in. He's tapped in. And my mom will say things every once in a while, which I kind of crack up about. At the last breath work. She was in town. And she saw pictures and she's like, Are you a cult leader? No. I was laughing because I'm standing there with my hand on my heart and all these people on the mat. So I'm like, I'm not feeding them Kool Aid. But if you know, I could see from the outside world, it could look.

Athan (1:20:32):

Yeah, I mean, again, people, as you and I know, and everyone knows it is like, the way that people interact with you is more about what's going on with them. Correct than it is anything with them. With you. They see that yes. And it creates some sort of feeling about themselves in the you know, your mom might be thinking, Did I raise my son was a good mom. Yeah. Good. I raised him probably, who I don't know, I'm getting her that reaction in her was much more likely probably about her than it is anything about you dancing with your shirt off? Yeah. Which I saw those videos, and I remember having the feeling of, man, I'm so fucking proud of you. I mean, like, you are doing something very different than what you were doing before. And you are just owning it. And, and I just thought, I honestly don't like experiencing my own shit through you. I was like, I wish I would do that more, not necessarily dancing and with, but my version of yeah, whatever

Dave (1:21:32):

That version is, and that's why I knew it was so important for me to post that video, I remember, like filming it thinking, Alright, we're about to see how this goes. And I don't know where this is gonna go. But I'm gonna post this. And I'm gonna move my body and just like, in the most vulnerable way, take my shirt off too. And, just like, Okay, I'm going to show this. And, of course, like, again, people, it's going to cause a reaction for people. But what's so powerful too, is when you actually do the work, when you go through the process of of reconciling and being aware of your own inner inner shadows, demons, ego, and you transmute that, you can actually now hold space, give an example my mom, let's say she was was experiencing her own, inner thing of like, did I raise my son, correctly? Well, it's almost as if I can imbibe that I can bring that into me her own fears, I can transmute it in me, and I can send it back out of love, rather than reacting as well, one of my mom leaves me because that's like a mother wound thing.

Dave (01:22:47):

You know, it's a real thing. You know, one of my moms doesn't accept me, instead of instead of like, coming from that space, I come from a space of such powerful authentic alignment to myself to truth, that I'm now able to hold space for her fears, anxieties, and traumas. And it's healing. And that's how we take generational traumas generation, I'm talking like, three, four or five layers of great grandparents. And we transmute that through ourselves. And it no longer likes those reactions and no longer lives in a family unit. And now we don't have to react the way we used to react in, treating our children or treating our parents or whatever that might be, we can literally create a brand new earth. Yeah,

Athan (1:23:38):

Well, we could probably talk for I know, we could talk all day about this stuff. But one thing that we probably won't get to talk a lot about, but one thing I've been thinking a lot about is that, ancestry and how things are passed down to us through not only you know, through behaviors and philosophies and ways of being but even just through epigenetics, Toronto, the markers, yeah, DNA, and it's just like, when I start to think about that, I'm like, because that also, again, going back to the awareness piece, and you can understand that and you start to explore Well, this is all those things, how it led to like this moment how I am right now. Yes, it gives you a level of awareness that you wouldn't have explained in any other way. Yeah, so Well, we're getting around to a little bit over an hour on the show, which was awesome. Like I said, I could talk to you all day long about this stuff. I'm just so freakin grateful that you are a person in my life and that I'm that you teach me and then I learned from you and then I get to witness all the work that you're doing. And thank you now for sharing that with the folks listening to whoever is listening or watching as well. Yeah, and we'll have to do it again sometime.

Dave (1:25:02):

Yeah. And, if people are looking for resources, or kind of next steps, they're definitely welcome to reach out on Instagram like Dr. Dave Coda co hods. My last name, they can find me on Instagram. I'm pretty active there. And the unbreakable Again, unbreakable, self calm is going to come out. And we'll have a bunch of resources, we'll have experiences, retreats, we're going to start with that collective because people need we need each other. And that's where it's going to start. It'll be an online community that helps leaders, people who have ambition, people who have that go getter mindset that they know that they are, they have potential that they may or may not be living up to you, and even if they're successful, and I love working with guys like this, where they are financially successful or successful in their career, but they know that there's something missing. And it's those guys I love working with because yeah, they have a skill set that the world can use, that can really bring something incredible into this world. And it's my hope that we can help those guys take their skills and align their impact with depth. But they got to do the work. They got to go through the inner work. And that takes time. And that takes coaching and that takes work just does.

Athan (1:26:33):

Yeah, just give those gifts and those skills to the world in more powerful ways. Yeah. When they figured that that part

Dave (1:26:40):

out Yeah. And that's true health. And I think if we can all show up as our healthiest self, I think we can all do it together. Absolutely. Man.

Athan (1:26:49):

I love that. Well, I'm here for all that. And yeah, we will share through the podcast, we will have links to all your sites and everything. So if you guys are looking, if you liked what you heard today, and Dr. Dave seems like the guy that you might need to engage with, definitely hit him up. Yes. I love you, man. Love you. Really. I hope that we will see each other again soon.

Dave (1:27:12):

Oh, we will. Take care. Cheers.

Athan (1:27:16):

I'm so grateful that you joined us for this episode of doing the work podcast. Providing you with value is why I do this and I hope you got something out of this episode that you can put into action into your life. If you enjoyed listening to this episode, please share this episode with your friends and family who are looking to level up in life. Sign up for our email list at To receive special offers and discounts from our sponsors. subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, YouTube, Amazon and anywhere podcasts are hosted. Thanks again for joining the doing the work podcast. And we'll see you in the next episode.

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