#11 - What to Explore When You Hit Plateaus in Healing w/ Dr. Hannah Fielding

In this episode, I chat with Dr. Hannah Fielding. We discuss cookie cutter paths, business challenges as a practitioner, trauma and the musculoskeletal system, and so much more.

Hannah 00:00

There are some patients that come in and they want to tell you kind of everything and, and your mental health is so important to your physical healing, that sometimes I do work through these things with patients. But then at the end of that day you go home and you're just exhausted, you're like, really, I'm only supposed to be their musculoskeletal provider. But we do carry a lot of trauma in our bodies. And so if people are dealing with that, and then we hit a plateau, that's when we kind of dig into it, and then you go home and you're

Athan 00:29

welcome to doing the work. If you're okay with living a boring life, with below average results, this is not your podcast, go ahead and tune out now. But if you want to live an amazing life full of purpose, love, joy, abundance, and elite health and fitness, you've come to the right place. This podcast is for people who are ready to stop making excuses and start doing the work that creates a life that they love. I'm your host, Ethan Schindler in Airborne Ranger turn social worker turned strength coach turned entrepreneur. I've spent my entire life learning how to be uncommon among the uncommon. I found my purpose and empowering people to reach their full potential. And this podcast takes a deep dive in how to prioritize what matters. Do the work, own your life, maintain compassion and kindness, and risk failure while enjoying every moment along the way. I talk to people who inspire me and share their gifts with you. This is my way of helping you find what sets you on fire and keeps the fire burning. The doing the work podcast is brought to you by the Bastrop fitness project backdrops hub for health and wellness. Check them out at www dot Bastrop fitness project.com. All right. Well, this is Dr. Right. Dr. Hannah Fielding. I'm so grateful for you like we're like I've been saying and when I asked you to be on the podcast, you've you're somebody who I've had great conversations with, you know, when you meet somebody, and you just get a sense for their energy and like where their hearts and like, you know, you just kind of get a good feeling about someone. And and you and I met at the gym, but like really, we could have met anywhere. I'm sure our paths would have crossed in a lot of different ways. Because I think we're just we have similar interests in what we're doing. So I've learned a bunch from you and gotten a good feeling from you for meeting you. And I thought you'd be an awesome person to be on the podcast. So thanks for being here today.

Hannah 02:24

Yeah, thanks for having me. I feel like it was really serendipitous for, like, end of COVID Not having worked out really grew up kind of immersed in athletics, and then just wasn't doing anything through grad school and then getting out and hitting COVID. And I was like, You know what I gotta get I gotta get back in shape. We got to get doing something got to get moving more. And found that July challenge. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You started with the challenge. Yeah. And then match me up with Sarah Stewart. Her works for rostie actually works for a doctor that I knew in undergrad, no way and was like, Oh, you work for you know, Dr. SO and SO. Oh, wow. She was one of the reasons I like went to chiropractic school. So that was just crazy connection. And she said, you know, like, well, this gym is is moving on to bigger things and is looking for a chiropractor. And it was like the first second day that I came in there. And I was like, Oh, I think some things are falling into place here.

Athan 03:21

Yeah, absolutely. And that's kind of how I felt exactly kind of sums it up. It's like you arrived. And it was like a lot of things were kind of falling in place. And so I thought that was super cool. And we actually it's funny, because, well, you mentioned you were in sports. And I think when I friended you on Facebook or whatever, you know, you see who your mutual friends are. Yeah, like, like, Liz, Liz. Yeah. And I was like, I was like, I wonder how you guys know each other. Did you tell me you you waterscape together or

Hannah 03:46

she joined the UT Water Ski Team. That was my sport growing up. Okay.

Athan 03:50

So you grew up, waterskiing? Yeah, it was like a competitive sport. Yeah.

Hannah 03:54

Like we didn't, my parents did it recreationally. But some people that we did it with knew of the competitive side. And like when I started doing it, they were like, oh, you know, she's actually not bad. Maybe you should take her to a tournament and my parents were just like, that doesn't make any sense. But, okay. And so we went, and I did pretty well at that tournament and qualified for like a regional event. And my parents were like, Oh, that's a once in a lifetime thing to like, take our kids to some like regional thing. Let's go. And so at regionals, I qualified for nationals. And they're like, Well, we have to do that. That sounds like so cool. Let's go. And so we went to Nationals when I was nine. And I qualified for the next year. Yong Yong. Yong Yong. You can teach anyone anything when they're young. I

Athan 04:38

truly don't have any bad habits, you know? Yeah.

Hannah 04:41

So since then, I did. I did like 11 nationals in a row. While I was like, you know, still being monetarily supported by my parents. Now it's too expensive to do but

Athan 04:51

is there like well, okay, so are there different events in like, are they say like, like, I don't know, I'm thinking of like, track and field, right. There's different types of events you can do. is water. Yeah, you call water skiing waterskiing.

Hannah 05:03

Okay? Just competitive waterskiing, there's three main events, there's slalom, which is just like one ski, and you go around buoys, so you win by buoy count and how fast the boat is going. And then trick is like a smaller wakeboard without fins. Just kind of judged as how many trips you do in a certain amount of time. And then jump is like how far you go off of a five foot ramp.

Athan 05:26

Awesome. So what was your event

Hannah 05:27

slalom slalom? I did our three but not very well, but like slalom, everyone has

Athan 05:31

their you know, their one that they're good at? Yeah. Well, that's awesome. I actually, where my family's from in Kansas, there's a lake there. And like, our favorite thing to do during the summer was like, you're getting recreationally, waterskiing. And so I don't wouldn't even know if I was good. Like, comparatively, I don't know, but I always loved it. It's just so fun. So fun,

Hannah 05:51

and I feel like anyone can do it. That's, well, I'd say that I don't know that. I feel like the biggest hurdle is you have to go near water and you have to have access to a boat. But after you cross those very big hurdles,

Athan 06:04

I've seen a lot of people who can't get up on skis. Like I like I honestly I've seen I've have taken friends skiing. Yeah. And it was frustrating for them because like they could not get up.

Hannah 06:15

I think that the biggest mental block because I coached for years too, is you are trying to like pull it it's a lot of athletes. I feel like they have this trouble where they're trying to control the situation. And you can't like you will never ever beat a boat. Right? You're not going to pull the boat back right toward you. Right You're only going to pull yourself out and under right and so I see this all the time with like very successful athletes that would be like I can do this and they just like muscle it and truly all you have to do is just give it into the boat.

Athan 06:43

Yeah. So clearly I was not a good waterskiing coach or I would have taught I'm sure I just gave people the horrible advice because yeah, but it's so fun. It's so you went to so when you went to college, they just had that as an opportunity or did you actually like go to that school because they had waterskiing.

Hannah 07:03

I didn't go well. Growing up. You're like, Oh, these are the good waterskiing schools, like I'm going to go there, I'm going to go I'm gonna get a scholarship. I'm going to go to one of these schools. Those schools aren't the most rigorous academically

Athan 07:15

right. Okay. I could, I could see the correlation. Yeah, maybe.

Hannah 07:18

So in high school when I started, you know, touring and actually getting serious, I was like, oh, okay, I'm not going to go to one of those. Let's look, you know, kind of down the line water ski wise. And I really wanted to go to the University of Alabama was like, heart set on it. Like we got to go here. Got in got my ski scholarship, got my academic scholarship. And then like, right before I was like, Let's go my parents were like, actually Oh, cuz they lost my money. My college money in Oh, eight. Your parents did? Yeah, well, not all of it, but

Athan 07:46

a lot of it because of like the housing bubble and all that. I don't

Hannah 07:51

know where it was. I don't know under I don't understand all of it. But yeah, so they were like No, you can't go to Bama because it's X amount more and you can get a better education education at UT. So interesting. You have to go to UT and what a privilege education right like to

Athan 08:07

be like a Texas is like, I mean, grade school grades.

Hannah 08:10

Yo, yeah. I can't believe how much of a brat I was like. 18 to be like, UT.

Athan 08:16

That's the adolescent condition. You know? Where did you grew up in? Where are you from Texas.

Hannah 08:23

I grew up I was born in Southern California. And then we moved to Texas when I was 10 or 11. Okay, what part of Texas north of Dallas there's we actually moved to a like private ski Lake. Okay, there's a caliper Princeton, Texas. Are you familiar? No.

Athan 08:39

Whoa, I'm now because I'm in the National Guard. My unit that I just got moved into is way up north, almost Oklahoma. Above. So I'm kind of learning the towns now. So I come in Dennis Sherman Denison

Hannah 08:51

Okay, so you're pretty much just straight north 35 Yeah, Dallas, you hit McKinney, and go east on 380. Okay, that's Princeton's out there.

Athan 09:00

Okay, cool. I was just at there's another place as a popular lake for Walters is by there. I don't remember. But there's like a It's apparently like a big place to go in the summer for lakes bow. Yeah. And isn't the name that I was remembering. But anyway, well, cool. Yeah. So okay, so So growing up this is like a great like so growing up being a competitive athlete in a in the sport like you did you toured and you get national, like 11 nationals is what you said 11 nationals. How did that how does that develop you as like a young person like, you know, what, what character did you build? Or maybe like, sometimes it's like, can be right, it

Hannah 09:41

can go the other way? Yeah. Like, like, what

Athan 09:43

was that experience like for you? I feel like

Hannah 09:45

it varied from year to year depending on whether that year was trending better or trending worse.

Athan 09:51

I did learn in regards to like how you were performing. Yeah,

Hannah 09:54

I did learn. I mean, I'm I'm a super competitive person.

Athan 09:58

No who's a doctor is a super big no get out.

Hannah 10:03

When when I actually kind of a segue when I went to chiropractic school and interviewed and they said, this isn't a very competitive program like we all just kind of nurture each other here and there's not competition. I was kind of bummed. I was like, you're like, I'm out. Yeah. Okay, I get that. But also, aren't we try to compete anyway?

Athan 10:20

go on forever about education and the competitive process, but I won't, we won't divert ourselves.

Hannah 10:27

I mean, education is inherently competitive.

Athan 10:29

I could be. It could be I actually be cutely anyway. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I feel like it can be competitive. But I think it could also not be I think what what's throws a lot of kids off is the competitiveness and for you, you were probably inherently competitive it you thrived in that environment. But I think there's a whole lot of kids who don't,

Hannah 10:51

that's fair. And I think it it can, it can break you too, because I think it did break me at some point. It's tough when your parents are your parents and your coaches, and kind of your everything. And now I'm an only child. So there was a lot of like, bringing the competition into the home, it was pretty much all centered on my skiing.

Athan 11:15

That was your whole life the whole life. Did you go to a regular school or regular school.

Hannah 11:20

But I wasn't allowed until I was in high school, middle school high school to like play other sports because they would take away from skiing time. So then when I finally got into middle school, high school, I was like, I want to play some other sports. And they're like, sure, as long as it doesn't interfere. And then every offseason was p90x for three months, and like no carbs in like, school, high school. So I got to college. And just went crazy with food. Sure. And was finally like, the ski team at UT isn't very competitive, I more went there for the education and was gonna ski for fun. So the ski team was basically just a party team. So I got to party with a bunch of new friends who also kind of like skiing, and eat whatever I wanted. And yeah, it kind of like nutrition went off the rails, because it had been so regimented for so many years. Yeah,

Athan 12:11

and, you know, that's kind of like, I see that a lot with people especially like, you know, they're kind of getting like, you know, their end of those college years, or just after those college years. But like, it's when it's like the aggregate of many years, kind of like being off the rails. And like, for a lot of us who played team sports or played a sport, we had a coach, we had a team we were accountable to, we had a goal that we're working towards. And then when you kind of lose that, you know, it doesn't all fall apart like the next day. But over time, it really and that's where at the gym, we see a lot of people like that, like, I've now not worked out for 10 years, and I've been eating like shit, and you know, and so that's kind of like, a common story that I hear, you know,

Hannah 12:53

yeah, I felt right and mold. I feel like because then college I didn't I didn't really work out I skied for fun. I skated the tournament's but didn't do well didn't like improve my skiing at all.

Athan 13:06

So I'm interested about that. So it was kind of more recreational, you would say like club. Right? Exactly, exactly. Club, and you are a national competitor coming into it. And you felt like you were you winning? At least? I mean, like you said, you weren't doing well, you weren't getting better.

Hannah 13:23

I wasn't getting better. I wasn't winning still. Because the two best schools that recruit skiers internationally, are in this region. They're both in Louisiana. Got it. So no, I was still competing with people that I'd been competing with, and even people from Europe that I'd never competed against. So especially without training without like working on diet with horrible sleep habits. No, it wasn't winning.

Athan 13:51

Okay, that's interesting. I mean, just because, and what it's it's kind of like, I'm sure that was like somewhat of your your kind of thing. It was kind of like a wake up call for you like, yeah, yeah. And so going back to gumps. I'm fascinated with the UK. So you had this very regimented, structured, focused childhood from like, nine years old? Yeah. Till you went to college. And tell me a little more about like, Okay, was it like, was it like when as soon as there was like, I went to college, you were like, Yes, I'm free, or was it more like, freaked out? Like, I don't want to do

Hannah 14:29

this? No, it was yes, I'm free. Like, my partner. He went to community college first and then transferred to UT. So smart. He's in like, no student loan debt. He actually got paid to go to community college,

Athan 14:42

for different reasons. But I just,

Hannah 14:45

you could not have told me at 18 Like, no, you cannot go far away to a big university.

Athan 14:51

I tried to talk my daughter into my daughter's in college and one of my daughters is in college right now. And I tried to get her to go to community college first and she's like, Dad, oh, like you She was like, so embarrassed that I would even bring that up. And I'm like, I'm telling you, like, I went from a community college and transfer it into an Ivy League school. So it's like, there's no shame in that. Absolutely not. So yeah, I wish my daughter would now she's got some expensive private school that I'm paying out the ass for, right?

Hannah 15:17

Well, that's what I tell Hayden. Like, if we have kids, like, I hope they see that your path like worked out well, and that they don't need to follow mine. Like, oh, you have to go to a great state school and you have to go be a doctor. Like, there's so many different things for people to do.

Athan 15:34

Nowadays, like I even I, it's hard saying this because I am in the generation of people where like, you like to be successful, you have to go to college. But I feel more and more. It's like, information and education is so free. Now you can find I mean, unless you're going to be adult like for you, you had no other path, right? There's no specialized training. If you're gonna be an attorney, you're going to be a doctor, you're going to be engineer, there's certain ones, there's just, that's the pathway. You want to be an educator, things like that. But, man, I don't know. Like, I don't know, if I would have gone to school, knowing what I know. Now. Would I have spent all those? I mean, I went to me, by the time I got, like, changed my degree multiple times, you know, and all this other stuff. I had gone to school for six and a half years. And we're like, almost $100,000 worth of debt. And I don't know if I do it again, you know? Yeah,

Hannah 16:25

I think that I mean, I think more people need to hear that there's just not like this cookie cutter path, like from the fourth grade on every year, it was like, I'm going to college. And we would like our school would take us on field trips to a university, just because like you have to do this. And both my parents have master's degrees. So I grew up thinking like, there's no other way, you go to college, you go and get your advanced degree. And like, You got to find out what you want to do it in. But you can only do it in four years, like you don't have time to mess around. And you just get through it. And then you live your life. And life is messier than that.

Athan 17:03

Way Messier. And I was actually that's interesting that you say that because I was fairly disappointed with my higher education like well, so my story was a little different. I had no other opportunities. I went to the army because I was like, not going to go to college. No college, I couldn't even gotten into college. Even if I had applied then I got my shit together in the army and then went to school as a as an adult, you know, much later, like

Hannah 17:26

using the GI bill or like, while you were still in the army. Yeah, I

Athan 17:29

took some college classes while I was in, but I, I officially like got out of the army and then went to college. I just thought I was going to go there and be like, enlightened. And I was going to be around all these brilliant minds and, and I was going to explore all these different. I mean, I was just gonna find things about the world and people that I that I had never even thought of before. And it was just like, it was just like high school again, like, you know, it's like, I was like, This is so fucking easy. You know, it was just disappointing. You know,

Hannah 18:02

I get that entirely. It's all still the same. It's like, come here, listen, take the test. Come here. Listen, take the test.

Athan 18:08

You have a particular like talent at like, taking a test or writing an essay or whatever your field like towards tends to lean towards. It's just not hard.

Hannah 18:18

Yeah, I agree. Texas definitely prepares you for test taking. That's all they harp on growing up. It's like, Oh, you got to take that into your test and pass. So by the time I got to college, I was a really good test taker. You wanted to ask me something? 20 minutes after that test? No, no,

Athan 18:32

yeah. How much can I retain? How much have I retained right now? I mean, just some stuff, you know, but what did you get your degree in? I was applied mathematics for a while. So like, statistics was what I started with. And then I went into I was gonna go I was all set up to go pre med. So I was gonna go to medical school. So I have a biology degree, actually human ecology. I graduated with that, but then just like totally got cold feet on med school. So

Hannah 18:55

what was the reason for that?

Athan 18:57

I was already older. So I was I started school at 25 years old, I started college at 2425 years old. And I just started doing the math on how much longer it was going to take me to go through residency, go through med school, go through residency, like all that stuff. And I was just like, man, nine year like eight nine years is like that what I'm in for right now. And I just got cold feet on it. I was just like, not doing it. So I took a summer to figure my figure things out. I ended up actually in that time, I was close to being able to get a bachelor's degree in social work because it was my undergrad was in social work. So I ended up finishing that bachelor's degree work as a social worker for a while and my bachelor's and then ended up getting my master's degree in social work nice. Okay, later on, and then later on, gotten another degree in exercise science when I started gravitating towards that field.

Hannah 19:45

So how did you jump from working in social work to kind of more exercise based

Athan 19:51

people ask me this all the time. So the people always are like, how do you go from being an Airborne Ranger to a social worker and then to being in like the fitness industry, you know, gyms and stuff and And actually, for me, it's just like so organic that like, the first thing was that what I learned in the army was that I loved helping people to be reached their potential, whatever obstacle they had in their way to being their fullest self. They're the most potential. You know, I wanted to help them with that. And that's was my only part that I really loved about the military, like all the jumping out of airplanes and getting shot out. And all that stuff was like, No, Dutchess wasn't me. So when I got out school, I knew I wanted to help people, like I knew I wanted to do something. So that's why medicine was, you know, it's kind of like, well, you can make money. And

Hannah 20:32

that's what you're told as a kid. Yeah, if you want to help people go into medicine, my parents

Athan 20:35

are in the medical field. So I just can't that's just what I knew and what I kind of gravitated toward. But as I started learning more, I started learning about social work and how broad it was, you can work in so many different fields with so many different populations. And you have a lot of flexibility and artistry about how you can do that you're not like caught into all the medical procedures and policies and stuff. So I got into that. And then I just realized the people I was working with no matter I mean, I work with people surviving cancer, I work with juveniles in the juvenile justice system, I worked in the public health industry, I was a sex health educator for a while I did like various different things. And I just started realizing that like, all these people need a baseline wellness, like part of the reason why they're struggling so bad, because they eat like shit, they've got bad habits. They're surrounding themselves with people who have similar bad habits. So I just started taking these people I was working with through social work and like, helping them to get fit, I was already interested in that I had done some like, I became a personal trainer in the army just because I was trying to help my guys be fitter. And so I so I was just using that knowledge to train people so that they could overcome their poverty issue their their cancer issue, their fact they got arrested, you know, like, whatever it was, and I just start more and more I fell in love with that part of it. I didn't do a good job. I would take on people's problems like I did. I you know, I would just like it's draining, it was so draining, and I was getting sick. I kept getting depressed, like a crippling depression, like I, I kind of got to bed sometimes. And so I just realized, like, let me just climb onto the part of this thing that I'm doing that I really love and try to redirect this path a little bit. And that's how it happened.

Hannah 22:09

That's awesome. Yeah, yeah, I guess it's not that far of a jump. Anyway, yeah. Just realize that everyone needs movement. Yeah. And no one's getting the kind of movement that we need.

Athan 22:18

Yeah. And I had realized success in my own life. Like, I'd been an athlete my whole life and being a tactical athlete as an Airborne Ranger, you know, I just realized, like, Okay, you if you're going to be successful at anything, you have to be, you have to have, I'm not saying you got to be like an elite person, but you got to have some physical fitness. And so that was just part of who I was. And I was just trying to help other people with that. So yeah, yeah, that's really cool. Yeah, let's, well, yeah. And I so it all kind of fits for me. Although some people are kinda like, that's weird. You know, the, they don't connect social worker, especially Airborne Ranger. I mean, like, they're right on the surface, very different. But yeah, so what about chiropractic? Like, made you wanna like, did you know from an early age,

Hannah 23:00

that's even not at all? No, it was kind of same as you like, I knew I wanted to medical field ish. I knew I wanted to help people. In high school, I started doing athletic training at my high school. I was like, Okay, this is, this is cool. This is the way to become a physical therapist. And then kind of the people around me in my life were like, Oh, I think you'd be good at being a physical therapist, because then before all these people that I knew, I was like, Maybe I want to be an interior designer, and they're like, I don't think you're very good at that.

Athan 23:28

Do that as a side project, do that as a passion project, like

Hannah 23:30

you're young, but also, I don't think you have very good style, like very obvious people, like No, don't, no, don't do that. I started saying like, maybe PT, and people were like, Oh, okay. Okay, I'm getting good feedback on this. Alright. So I did athletic training at UT. And it was, it was just a lot, it was a lot of work. So you're expected to go to, you know, all your classes as normal. And being pre med, you're taking the pre med classes on top of the athletic training classes on top of your base. And you're expected to work for free 40 hours a week for football team for baseball for sample, and just like naturally do that, and still have a sort of functioning life. So after four years of that, I said, Oh my gosh, I don't know what I want to do. I know I don't want to be an athletic trainer. You're asked to work far too many hours for too little pay. And no one knows what you do.

Athan 24:21

Yeah, it's interesting. And even me being in a related industry. They don't come first to mind as like a track right? And you know, it's they're kind of like a although a cool, cool section of fitness and athletics and stuff. It's You're right. They're kind of like overlooked a little bit.

Hannah 24:39

It's like, oh, you you just train their strength, or you just train for their sport. It's like, no, actually, we're basically a physical therapist just without a doctorate without that sort of credentialing. Obviously, Pts are very well trained. And athletic training is now just either a bachelor or master's but you're still a medical health professional and that pay does not reflect that. And then, you know, just respect from the higher ups at whatever institution you're at doesn't respect that either.

Athan 25:07

Yeah, it seems like the people I know who've gone that route. It's like a great stepping stone. You learned a lot, you got some great experience. You met some people, but it hasn't been the people I know, haven't stayed there. They they've gone on to other things, and it was a great foundation for them.

Hannah 25:22

Yeah, I would, I would agree. I mean, I went in knowing like, I don't want to just do this. And I met some friends in that program at UT, they were like, I'm just gonna do this, I'm happy to be at a high school for the next, you know, for my entire life, I'll retire at a high school, I'll work those 80 hours a week, but I love those kids. And, and so there, there are people that have stayed in it, but personally, my friends is, especially the ones who are still in it are struggling mental health wise, especially through COVID. They were asked to do things kind of outside their scope. And now that they're back in the athletic training room, are just are struggling and looking for the next bit. And so I'm like, yeah, do chiropractic.

Athan 26:04

So what what do you think is causing their their mental health issues? Like,

Hannah 26:10

I think a lot of it's always being on call. You are always at a coach's desire whim to do anything. That's like, Saturday morning, like I had friends with or had plans with a girlfriend. And she was like, oh, nevermind can't do it. I have to go lead like stretching or something like that. Like that's,

Athan 26:31

so that wasn't even like a planned thing. They just call their end to do that just

Hannah 26:35

call you in to do it. You're routinely working, just crazy hours, even if the place tells you you know, when you come in, like, oh, we max at a 40 hour work week. It's never 40 Hour Work Week, especially with charts on top of it when you go home. So you can never like leave that behind. I have friends whose coaches and whose parents if they're at a high school will text them at like 10pm at night on a Friday with like, this is going on, what should I do? You're like, it's 10pm on a Friday, I should be asleep. So there's a lot it just like it never stops on like social

Athan 27:07

work. To me, that's kind of like what happened with me was like, kind of like you were constantly dealing with people's problems, their issues, and it was hard to get away from it. And it was usually something that like it was hard to shake off to like when you write when you were off?

Hannah 27:23

Yeah, I mean, I don't deal with it on that scale. But there are some patients that come in, and they want to tell you kind of everything and, and your mental health is so important to your physical healing, that sometimes I do work through these things with patients. But then at the end of that day, you go home and you're just exhausted, you're like, really, I'm only supposed to be there musculoskeletal provider. But we do carry a lot of trauma in our bodies. And so if people are dealing with that, and then we hit a plateau, that's when we kind of dig into it. And then you go home and you're like, cool.

Athan 27:52

Yeah, have you read the book, The Body Keeps the Score? No, but I've heard of it. A lot of chiropractors that I know, I haven't read it either. But they all always referencing what you just said a second ago kind of mentioned. And actually the guy was sitting talking about what before we started recording, the guy who's into the somatic breathwork is actually a chiropractor also. And he started realizing like when someone has a knee issue, it's like sometimes related to this other thing. And he just started realizing how we all know there's a mind body connection, like everybody knows that. But he just started going down that path way more than the chiropractic like he doesn't want to. He doesn't want to do a traditional not practicing that traditionally is but that's he's he's kind of like, drawn to the other stuff.

Hannah 28:34

You know, that's cool. Yeah, I haven't read the book. But I mean, you can just see it clinically, all the time with people that have experienced something, especially with COVID. These last couple of years, everyone's life has changed so dramatically.

Athan 28:46

So if someone comes to you, let's say I'm doing this completely hypothetical, like but and they're you're working on their issue that they came to you with, but they start talking right, they start saying I got this I got a relationship problem, or I got a money problem, or whatever it is, do you change how you're treating them a little bit? Because most of us are most of the medical, like this is kind of my frustration sometimes with the medical practice in the medical fields, or it's just treat the body treat the symptom and like don't worry about that other stuff. So how does that play into how you do your work?

Hannah 29:17

Yeah, it changes it. Usually, if someone tells me something like that I currently treat in like an open treatment Bay. So if someone were like privacy, there's no privacy. So if someone says something, you know, hinting towards that I'll usually either ask them into my office so that we can chat about it. Had to do that a few times over the last couple of years. Just okay. Hey, yeah, like, let's, let's talk about that a little bit more. But that being said, like, that's not what I'm trained in. So there's a lot of things that are outside my scope.

Athan 29:46

And I'm just gonna say you got to be careful about crossing. Oh, absolutely.

Hannah 29:48

So, you know, I'm here to listen and I'm here to tell you how maybe I think that plays into the situation that we're dealing with, whether that be muscle tension or you know, poor sleep, which is leading to some these things. But lately, I've always recommended better help. I've used it myself. And it's expensive. It's this app where you can get matched with a counselor and do video chat or you can text them whenever.

Athan 30:14

Oh, is it? It's I'm sure there's for some fee or something.

Hannah 30:16

Yeah. But it's it's much, much cheaper than regular therapy. So for, especially for my patients who are having monetary issues, like they're even struggling to pay to come see me, like, try out this BetterHelp it's, I think it's awesome. I want to say it's like, 250 a month or something like that, but that's unlimited. Yeah. Talk text therapy.

Athan 30:35

I mean, you can't get if you don't have insurance, and you know, if you're seeing someone weekly, or even twice a week, yeah, you know, that's amazing. Yeah, it's

Hannah 30:44

really good price. Recently, though, cuz I started using it kind of in the pandemic, just struggling with career things. And you know, not being able to buy a house like not advancing in my adult life the way that I thought I would, because of COVID, or, you know, because of other things, but feeling like it was because of COVID. I started using BetterHelp. And now I think that BetterHelp doesn't pay their therapists very well. So that may be a problem.

Athan 31:05

It's similar to child labor, you know, where you get GI Joe or whatever.

Hannah 31:09

Yeah, because you're paying a cheaper rate, obviously, they're not getting paid as well. And so it was like, dang it. Yeah. How do I feel about that?

Athan 31:16

Well, I mean, they have choice, just like you have choice. And, you know, you just got to believe that people are choosing what's right for them. So well, that actually says some of the stuff you just said, so you you had been thinking about your career, what do I want to be doing? I have these things I want to do in my life, wherever you landed with all that, like what's going on? Like, what are you working on?

Hannah 31:34

Yeah, when I first got out of school, I was like, I'm not ready to open my own thing. Like, I don't know, anything, you know. And if I feel like if you do feel like you know, everything enough, when you're coming out of school, you have this just wrongly inflated sense of self, because you're only like, with doctors, you do a residency and everything like that. Chiropractors, you treat like, X amount of people, and then you're released into the world. And I was like, I don't think I'm ready for that. So I'm going to associate so it was kind of finding my associate, found a doctor I love who also went to my school was like waiting to work for her. And she wasn't quite ready for me. But I was like, I want to do it. So I went up to work there for a couple months really, really hard to build a patient base. I was seeing like two people a month. Oh, wow, it was so slow. Because I was like, I really want to work with you. And she was like, I think we can sustain it. I'm busy. That didn't translate. So as much as I enjoyed it working there. COVID hit and she had to let me go. Because I was only seeing two people anyway. I went and worked at HEB for a little bit because I was like, I'll come back after this shutdown. So I was like, delivering food to people's cars. With a chiropractic degree

Athan 32:40

amazing. Yeah, it's just like, Yeah,

Hannah 32:43

it's so taxing. Just like, oh, my gosh, I have so much money invested into this. What are you doing, I went back to work for her. And just after three months, it just, I still wasn't picking back up, mainly because no one was coming in. Because a COVID got another job. I see a lot of people there. But it comes with its own issues. And so I was like, You know what, I feel confident as a practitioner. Now I know kind of how I want to practice. I know my ideal demographic is more the athletic population, people who, when you tasked them with doing homework to that will actually kind of get them better. And they will feel empowered to kind of take control of their own health. That's the population that does that. So I really enjoy working with them. And so I'm thinking about starting my own thing. Yeah, mainly focus more on sports chiropractic, which includes aspects of regular chiropractic adjustments, things like that, but also focuses on you know, soft tissue modalities, and a corrective exercise and stuff like that.

Athan 33:41

That's awesome. So that's interesting working with the athletic base, I kind of work in. And this is something that so again, I do have beef with the medical with the medical world, because I think that they try to separate, you know, body from the mind and a lot of other things. But I love what you just said, because like what you said is basically the athletes that you work with, have a why they have a purpose. They've got something bigger that they're trying to work on. And they know that their body is just a tool, they're just the canvas of that. And so of course they're going to be more compliant, they're going to be more motivated, they're going to do the homework that you give them and they're going to come back when you tell them to come back and all the other stuff, which which I love and I wish more more medical providers would try to dig into a little bit more of like, well, why do you want to be healthy? Because it won't be hard to get I mean, like I do in my world is like, it is frustrating when someone has the you know, physical health problems. They're trying to be healthy, maybe they're overweight, or maybe they've got weakness and part of their body or whatever. But they're just, it comes across as not motivated. Right? You know, but I think but what I'm lacking to do what I haven't done as well as trying to say well, what is your big picture? What is your why What are you trying to work towards and then I can tap into that and just use your body as a part of it to get you there.

Hannah 34:59

Yeah, I just did read a book, because when I open my own thing I'm planning on not taking insurance. Yeah. Because insurance dictates what the provider can do it. So you

Athan 35:10

education and insurance like don't even get me started.

Hannah 35:13

So insurance bothers me a lot for a lot of reasons. And it's the best con that someone ever came up with. Truly, they're making so much money and trying and not paying out. Exactly, yeah, they they reduce your rates every year, they make you jump through even more and more hoops to get paid from them Blue Cross Blue Shield sent out this like, scary letter to every provider this year, like your billing this code too much. The thing is, they build it out, they send that letter to everyone. And we all know we all talk. So it's just a scam. Anyway, so I'm planning on not taking insured for you. So I read a book just called fuck insurance by Danny Mata. He's a PT in Georgia. And he kind of changed that for me, like, just get really goal oriented with people, everyone's goal is different, your goal for them is not their goal. And they're not going to get as better if it's just you enforcing your goal for them on them. So I've started asking all my patients in the last two months like, what is your number one goal in these first like four weeks? Do you want to play with your kid more do you want to pick up Pick up your kid off the floor, because that's not what I would have thought. But that's yours.

Athan 36:18

That's exactly what I was saying. And so I coach, my coaches, one of my favorite parts of my job is coaching coaches. And, and a lot of times as a as a, especially when you're first getting into coaching and being a trainer or whatnot, you you're like, Yo, I want this for you, like I want you to be stronger, I want you to run faster, and we get attached to that. And then when that person is not meeting that expectation that that you had for them without even having the talk, right? We haven't had this conversation, I didn't tell you that I wanted you to do this. And then you and then when they're not living up to it, you get frustrated with them, you know, and then yeah, even if you don't mean to Yeah. And even if it were their goal, would I like to really have this like, be like just completely unattached to an outcome, like I'm here with you in this moment. And I know that what we're doing together right now is going to make you better. And I have like a vision, I have an intent that I'm trying to get you towards. And I'm just going to not, I'm not going to attach to that. I'm not going to set you or me up for failure by just like, because then you get locked in on it. Like I won't accept any other outcome. Yes, then this particular outcome. And then and then it's just it's just a recipe for frustration and discontent and all that other stuff. So and quitting. Yeah. And just stopping everything. Absolutely. Yeah. It's like, yeah, because perfectionism comes in. And once you start getting once you get locked into perfectionism, you're it's just that you're just, it's just a matter of time when you're going to stop. Absolutely. So. So I love that you're doing that. And so how has that worked? Has that worked better for you like what have been that other the results, the outcome really

Hannah 37:55

has? Yeah, we work with a general population right now. So we see a little bit of everybody all ages, and hearing some of their goals is, is really kind of changing. And the fact that I like put it in their chart in front of them like this, the goal, we're working towards them great. Like, this is how I'm going to help you. This is how you're going to help you. And I've done really good patient outcomes from it. Yeah.

Athan 38:17

So okay, so you're going to bring that into your practice. We're like, where are you at with all that you're getting it you're you've kind of developed your business model, you've kind of you've obviously thought about whether you're gonna take insurance or not, you know,

Hannah 38:29

yeah, I've got a I've got a name. I've got a website in the works. What's the name, it's gonna be revived sport and spine. Nice, cuz I want to say I got a website in the works. I'm using Squarespace and kind of learning how to build a website,

Athan 38:41

fun parts of being a small business owner, kind of you become a jack of all trades, you become a designer and a website. Truly. Yeah, it's crazy.

Hannah 38:51

It's funny though. I was even talking with someone at the gym. And they were like, oh, yeah, Squarespace is great. You know, if you need any tips, like, let me know. It's just it's cool what the community around you to help, like build you up can just out of surprising like surprising out of nowhere, just like talking about it man, like, oh, well, I used to do some websites. Oh,

Athan 39:07

yes. I'm huge on whatever your goal is, whatever you're working on. And like, whatever aspect of your life, I'm big on and speaking it into the world. Bring it into as many conversations as you can. Because it's amazing, like how you, you essentially enlist people into your, into your goal into your dream and how many times that happened for me when I say, you know, I've got this dream of opening a gym, right? And they're like, Oh, I've got a buddy who's got some equipment he's selling or who opened one and he's got he knows, has all this information or something like, oh, a buddy who would do a website for you. It's just like, it's like, when you speak it into the world. You you, you speak power to it, and you recruit people into it and you're much more likely to achieve it.

Hannah 39:55

Totally. Yeah, I felt that way. Right. Like because we've talked about me opening up In your new space and Bastrop fitness project, yeah, yeah. And it was looking really enticing. And then this just the numbers. Yeah, workout.

Athan 40:07

Yeah. So the background for the people listening for that is that. So the big picture is, so I'm building a building called Bastrop fitness project. And it's pinned at one thing after another, just like I could do a whole podcast on like how that particular project has gone. And the challenge we're having right now and what you experience through kind of starting small, so being on the tenant end of it looking for a space is that the project cost us so much more money. And so we, I'm having to have these conversations with tenants about saying, like, hey, like what we thought would the rent was gonna be, it's gonna be it's gonna be a little higher than that. And in your case, you were like, just getting started. You're starting a new business, you got a startup you for your thing, like, I got this cost, and I got that cost. And, and it's a little scary anyway, because I don't know how many clients I'm gonna have. Yeah. And yeah, and you just have to make strong business decisions. And sometimes they're hard because like, you've already Oh, yeah, I was been talking about it for months and stuff like that.

Hannah 41:05

It was like, kind of heartbreaking. Like, Oh, dang. Because I mean, really, even the reason I got the ball rolling on getting my LLC was like, I think there's gonna be a great space, right? Because

Athan 41:13

we will. And we had that initial you because like, you were like, Oh, really? And the I could see that you hadn't fully thought about making the leap yet? Right? Until I mentioned that. That's scary. Yeah. And so and so that's, yeah, that's frustrating. So like, what do you do in that situation? You you you had a goal. So perfect example, you had an outcome in your mind. You had this end state and then it changes what? What's your what do you do next?

Hannah 41:37

Honestly, the next thing, I'm not entirely certain, like, I kind of looked around at other spaces for lease. There's nothing everything's too large. Okay, getting leased out right now. So I don't need 1000 square feet.

Athan 41:51

Right? Which is a benefit to you. Yes. A true lean. Yeah. Can be you can be agile, which is great. Because you're kind of you're, I'm assuming yours to be working solo practitioner, right.

Hannah 42:02

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, starting off, at least what my mentors and what some of my friends have done is just, you know, kind of lease out a room and something that already exists. So kind of gotten in with their patient base, whether it be with PTS, like, I've got a friend in Arizona who did that. And I've got a friend in Austin, who just got into a gym. His thing, their gym has been around, and they said, Oh, well, we survived all of COVID without someone in there, so you don't have to pay us rent for the first three months. Oh, wow. And so for a new business. That's, that's, that's amazing. Yeah. I was like, Well, I'm not gonna find that. But

Athan 42:38

we're actually like thinking creatively, could you start your business without a room? Like, in a corner of a gym? Like, how many walls do you need? Versus what? You know?

Hannah 42:52

Yeah, I mean, that's a good point. My mentor started in like a closet. Yeah, her gym. So you know, as long as people are fine with the privacy of it, yeah. Then yeah, you can start it pretty much anyone if

Athan 43:03

you're working with athletes anyway, they're probably it's probably not as private, although I'm not again, not knowing you're in shape. Don't know how we're gonna be dressed in and although

Hannah 43:12

it's usually normal clothes, I don't I don't make anyone like get into a gown or, or anything like that. What

Athan 43:18

I hadn't occurred to me before. And I think we're having a business conversation on a podcast, but like, what if? What if we just like allowed you to build up your client base in the gym, without renting space? And then when you could when you had enough money to afford the office space? You could make that leap if you want, even if even if it if it made sense to

Hannah 43:37

you? Yeah, I think I think we could explore that more. Absolutely. Cool.

Athan 43:41

Awesome. Well, see, there you go on a podcast. Yeah. Talking. Nick, how you come up with creative ideas and solutions to things? Yeah, I

Hannah 43:48

think that sounds cool.

Athan 43:49

I hadn't really thought of that before. But yeah, I was bummed. So again, like just having a transparent conversation on the podcast. Like, I was bummed, because I had my main reason of being into like, wanting to create that space was to create opportunity for people to help people to get their dream that they've been trying to work on. And to have this like, beautiful, holistic space that had just like a very diverse offering, complimentary, but not a stepping on top of each other services. And so like, of course, when I saw that email from you, I understood right off the bat, because dead honest as like, I'm like, can I figure out how I'm gonna pay rent in there. And now that prices have gone up, so So I got it. And then I was, but mostly I was bummed, just because I was like, Oh, she had to have this goal. And like, I knew what she was working towards. And that was the more frustrating part for me. And so I'd love to try and figure out a way to like, make that all work.

Hannah 44:40

That'd be cool. Yeah, it's just, you know, after working at that chiropractic office, and she already had an established patient base and so you know, and worked with like three CrossFit gyms. It should have been easy for me to start building up a patient base. And just after I saw the reality of that, I was very nervous to enter into like a rental agreement. If I had a CrossFit gym, yes, no, unless I do think it's gonna be a good community, but just only seeing like two patients that first month. Like, you gotta you got to plan for if the worst happens, will I survive this? Yeah. And monetarily, I just was like, I don't know if I could,

Athan 45:15

yeah, I call that the, well I don't call it. There's a term called the Stockdale paradox. Okay, you ever read good to great. So out of this book called Good to Great. It's called the Stockdale paradox. And he the very fast story of that he was a prisoner in Vietnam for the longest time, he was the longest prisoner of war. And so he was asked by this author, like, how did you get through that Admiral Stockdale and. And he said, essentially, I had the ability to face the brutal facts of my situation, like, I didn't shy away from like, I wasn't sitting there going, I'm going to come home, every Christmas wouldn't come and I'm going home by Christmas, he was able to accept the all the harsh realities of what he was doing. And at the same time, latched on to the undying hope, the undying belief that he was going to make it out of there. Yeah. And so I think for small business owners like us, that's what it takes, like, you have to be savvy enough, smart enough, conservative enough to say, like, you know, it's, I'm not going to just put my sign on the door, and people are going to come rushing towards me. Yeah, I need to build this. So I need to create plans and systems that helped me to start from nothing and and plan for the worst of times, while knowing this is going to work for me eventually. Yeah, I

Hannah 46:31

think that's great. I feel like that's exactly. I feel like too many people get in, or at least don't many chiropractors who have not made it because they're just like, I'm starting a business. Yeah. And there's not necessarily like a plan or there's not numbers behind it. And you're just like, well, I have the education. So let's do this. Go.

Athan 46:46

Yeah, well, they just go again, they have they get a vision of oh, this is how it's going to be and then when that doesn't happen, they they just can't pivot. They just can't adapt, then it's like, well now because now it's like, well, you would have saved your business if you had just hit this road, right? Like you just taken your table to that place into this place that you know, into that, you know, but you thought you were just gonna open the doors of your office to open a website and people are just gonna find you. And they're just gonna come running in. Yeah, and that's just not how it works. I mean, you got to be scrappy. Being a small business owner, you've got to, you know, you got grind it Yeah, to grind it out. So and so if I could ever give you any advice, that's it, you know, get scrappy, be agile, don't walk into any particular way that your business is gonna look, you have hope for guide it in a certain way, have a vision? And also be okay with it not ending up like that. Yeah,

Hannah 47:38

I mean, that's kind of the same theme we were talking about earlier. Once you like, lock into being a perfectionist, things can really go downhill. So you have to be open to new possibilities.

Athan 47:46

And doctors have hard times with that. You know, Nigeria's I know. Yeah, the high achievers are the ones that really, you know, of course, they achieve in a lot of areas, but sometimes they add the risk at the cost of other areas. Yeah, so cool. Well, you know, as we start to kind of get to the end of this, was there something you thought I was going to ask you about? Uh, you'd hoped I'd ask you about that you like, that? We should

Hannah 48:08

know. I don't think so. I think we covered a good feel like we talked about my childhood all the way down.

Athan 48:13

We just, we just went through it all. Why this is great is such a great conversation. I'm so grateful for you. I never know what to expect out of these things. But this was, I learned a lot about you. And I learned a lot about what life is like for someone who follows a path like yours. And I hope that people at home also got something out of it. Yeah. Thanks for being on.

Hannah 48:36

Cool. Thanks so much.

Athan 48:39

I'm so grateful that you joined us for this episode of doing the work podcast. Providing you with value is why I do this and I hope you got something out of this episode that you can put into action into your life. If you enjoyed listening to this episode, please share this episode with your friends and family who are looking to level up in life. Sign up for our email list at WWW dot doing work podcast.com. To receive special offers and discounts from our sponsors. subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, YouTube, Amazon and anywhere podcasts are hosted. Thanks again for joining the doing the word podcast. And we'll see you on the next episode.

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